How do you make black and white look more contrasy, without...?

[harmonica]

Oh okay. I can shoot RAW. Clients have complained about RAW before cause they cannot open them under normal programs, but I can shoot in RAW and convert later. Thanks for the tip. However, what picture style should I use? I have the Canon T2i, and I got styles like 'standard', 'landscape', 'neutral', etc. What picture style and what settings on that style should I use? Thanks.

 

[Ysarex]

Okay thanks. I figured it was better to shoot B & W to begin with, since most pros do it that way it seems. At least in film days. No one seemed to shoot on color film then turn it to B & W later. They would actually spend more money on B & W film, so I thought the purpose was that that look already being on the film helped. But if I shoot on a camera picture style to begin with, what picture style and what camera settings should I use?

Back in the film days, B&W film produced a negative and that had to go into a darkroom and be printed -- processed if you like. That darkroom processing was much more sophisticated and capable than the software in your camera. Your camera software is not adequate.

(Color film was much more expensive than B&W film.)

"That look" was not on the film it happened during the print processing stage in the darkroom. Think: DARKroom -- LIGHTroom.

You got a really good clear answer from Keith: "You can't."

You're running down a dead-end alley if you think your camera JPEG software can deliver here. The picture style you need is RAW.

Joe

 

[Ysarex]

Oh okay. I can shoot RAW. Clients have complained about RAW before cause they cannot open them under normal programs, but I can shoot in RAW and convert later. Thanks for the tip. However, what picture style should I use? I have the Canon T2i, and I got styles like 'standard', 'landscape', 'neutral', etc. What picture style and what settings on that style should I use? Thanks.

Don't give RAW files to clients. Pictures styles are meaningless and have no effect on a RAW file -- makes it a lot easier actually.

Joe

 

[hamlet]

There is a bit of a failure of communication here. Raw files simply retain all of the information so you can later in your computer edit it to whatever you want.

But if you still want to insist on in camera processing look up Gary Fong, he is a big advocate of jpeg.

 

[harmonica]

Okay thanks. I don't need to do in camera processing. But even if I select RAW, I still have to select a picture profile though.

So far I shoot on Landscape, with the sharpness at 0, contrast at -2, saturation at 0, and color tone at 0. That's the best look I have come up for color pics, and the contrast is down a couple of notches just in case, so there is not too much. Anything above -2 gives you puffy eye begs it seems.

Is there a better one I should be using?

 

[hamlet]

Okay thanks. I don't need to do in camera processing. But even if I select RAW, I still have to select a picture profile though.

So far I shoot on Landscape, with the sharpness at 0, contrast at -2, saturation at 0, and color tone at 0. That's the best look I have come up for color pics, and the contrast is down a couple of notches just in case, so there is nto too much.

Is there a better one I should be using?

As Ysarex just mentioned, it doesn't matter.

 

[harmonica]

Oh okay I get. You're saying that with RAW, the image records in a certain way, in that which changes can be made, and it won't matter. A lot of people say to shoot flat, cause you cannot make changes later, but with RAW you can, is that right? So if I shoot in raw, I can up the contrast as much as I want and if the eyes are too puffy in black and white, then I can just take them down then? Or I can shoot flat and bring them up if that's not right.

What about video? My T2i, only does H.264 video. But I cannot shoot flat, cause it goes from 8bit depth to 6 bit depth. At least according to these articles it does:

http://www.xdcam-user.com/2013/03/to...o-shoot-flat/\


http://www.steveoakley.net/template_...ink.asp?id=172

 

[Ysarex]

Okay thanks. I don't need to do in camera processing. But even if I select RAW, I still have to select a picture profile though.

So far I shoot on Landscape, with the sharpness at 0, contrast at -2, saturation at 0, and color tone at 0. That's the best look I have come up for color pics, and the contrast is down a couple of notches just in case, so there is not too much. Anything above -2 gives you puffy eye begs it seems.

Is there a better one I should be using?

If you select RAW then the picture profiles have no effect -- they are meaningless. Select anyone you want since it won't matter in any way.

Set Landscape with sharpness at 0, contrast at -2 saturation at 0 and tone at 0 and take photo -- RAW file. Then change to Neutral and set sharpness to 2 contrast to 2 saturation to -2 and tone to 0 and take the same photo again and the two RAW files will be identical since the scene mode, sharpness setting, contrast setting, saturation setting and tone setting have absolutely no effect on a RAW file.

Joe

 

[hamlet]

Okay thanks. I don't need to do in camera processing. But even if I select RAW, I still have to select a picture profile though.

So far I shoot on Landscape, with the sharpness at 0, contrast at -2, saturation at 0, and color tone at 0. That's the best look I have come up for color pics, and the contrast is down a couple of notches just in case, so there is not too much. Anything above -2 gives you puffy eye begs it seems.

Is there a better one I should be using?

If you select RAW then the picture profiles have no effect -- they are meaningless. Select anyone you want since it won't matter in any way.

Set Landscape with sharpness at 0, contrast at -2 saturation at 0 and tone at 0 and take photo -- RAW file. Then change to Neutral and set sharpness to 2 contrast to 2 saturation to -2 and tone to 0 and take the same photo again and the two RAW files will be identical since the scene mode, sharpness setting, contrast setting, saturation setting and tone setting have absolutely no effect on a RAW file.

Joe

Exactly, and i think the reason he doesn't understand is because he thinks that he cant apply styles afterwards. When you put that raw file into your computer, you can apply all the settings yourself.

Look:

See all the settings in lightroom? Those are the same you find in the styles, but you get much more options and you can use scalpel like precision.

 

[Ysarex]

Oh okay I get. You're saying that with RAW, the image records in a certain way, in that which changes can be made, and it won't matter. A lot of people say to shoot flat, cause you cannot make changes later, but with RAW you can, is that right? So if I shoot in raw, I can up the contrast as much as I want and if the eyes are too puffy in black and white, then I can just take them down then? Or I can shoot flat and bring them up if that's not right.

What about video? My T2i, only does H.264 video. But I cannot shoot flat, cause it goes from 8bit depth to 6 bit depth. At least according to these articles it does:

http://www.xdcam-user.com/2013/03/to...o-shoot-flat/\


http://www.steveoakley.net/template_...ink.asp?id=172

You're not quite getting it -- you can't shoot flat if you're shooting RAW you can only shoot RAW. All of the picture controls really do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to a RAW file. If the contrast and saturation etc. controls were dials on your camera you could spin them while shooting RAW files and they would have no effect whatsoever. All of those adjustments are exclusively for the camera software that creates a JPEG.

Joe

 

[Ysarex]

Okay thanks. I don't need to do in camera processing. But even if I select RAW, I still have to select a picture profile though.

So far I shoot on Landscape, with the sharpness at 0, contrast at -2, saturation at 0, and color tone at 0. That's the best look I have come up for color pics, and the contrast is down a couple of notches just in case, so there is not too much. Anything above -2 gives you puffy eye begs it seems.

Is there a better one I should be using?

If you select RAW then the picture profiles have no effect -- they are meaningless. Select anyone you want since it won't matter in any way.

Set Landscape with sharpness at 0, contrast at -2 saturation at 0 and tone at 0 and take photo -- RAW file. Then change to Neutral and set sharpness to 2 contrast to 2 saturation to -2 and tone to 0 and take the same photo again and the two RAW files will be identical since the scene mode, sharpness setting, contrast setting, saturation setting and tone setting have absolutely no effect on a RAW file.

Joe

Exactly, and i think the reason he doesn't understand is because he thinks that he cant apply styles afterwards. When you put that raw file into your computer, you can apply all the settings yourself.

See all the settings in lightroom? Those are the same you find in the styles, but you get much more options and you can use scalpel like precision.

I've always liked the scalpel analogy. The tools available to process a raw file are like a scalpel while the software in the camera that creates a JPEG is like a child's sharpened stick.

Joe

 

[harmonica]

Okay thanks, I understand now. What about for video, since my camera does not shoot RAW video, and only H.264. It can only record 8bit, but if you shoot flat then add later, you loose data, and 8-bit goes to 6 bit, if shooting flat. What then?

 

[Ysarex]

Okay thanks, I understand now. What about for video, since my camera does not shoot RAW video, and only H.264. It can only record 8bit, but if you shoot flat then add later, you loose data, and 8-bit goes to 6 bit, if shooting flat. What then?

Video is a whole 'nother ball game. Get the light right or go home.

Joe

 

[KmH]

There is a bit of a failure of communication here. Raw files simply retain all of the information so you can later in your computer edit it to whatever you want.

Raw files don't 'retain all the information'.

Before they are converted in a Raw conversion application Raw files contain no color, or gamma curve information. That original information has to be interpolated because the image sensor in a digital camera can only record scene luminosity (no color) in a linear manner. Our eyes are non-linear which is why a Raw converter has to edit the Raw file so it looks like what humans see.

Consequently if you use different Raw converters to convert the same Raw file each Raw converter will produce a somewhat different conversion because each Raw converter uses somewhat different interpolation algorithms.

That's why Adobe makes sure that Photoshop Camera Raw and LR Develop module both use the same Raw conversion application Adobe Camera Raw -ACR. So we can be sure when we move image files between Photoshop and LR they are speaking the same Raw conversion language.

 

[bribrius]

Okay then thanks. I usually do a variety of different kinds under different settings, so then I have all my pictures pre-made to choose from. But if I shoot in color and turn it into black and white, what camera settings should I use then?

I have no idea what is going on here. I purposely under expose bump the contrast and light in post to do that. I also shoot in camera bw high or low key high contrast and do it on jpeg.

I cant even read through this thread its so full of b.s. I cant take it.