I am a wedding and portrait photographer & I need advise from a commercial

Sorry, again, you misinterpreted. What I meant was that the agreement was entirely arbitrary. You can do what you want. There is no guidance to be had. It is a unique situation. Ad hoc. Do you know what ad hoc means?

Unique situation? bs.
Wedding photographer doing weddings, selling wedding images. Does their first commercial shoot, had initial arrangements with 1 client, and then the 1 client wants more and a second client steps in. You think that is unique?

If you have never been through the situation, fine. That does not mean that others have not. I agree that each situation is different, but getting answers as to what others have done often helps in guiding one's decisions and using their experience and knowledge to help guide your own.

I use the term ad hoc as impromptu, random. I have scheduled appointments and I can have adhoc appointments, walkins type of thing. One of type of things.

I agree that the OPs situation is ad hoc for them, it is random, something they didn't plan for. But I dont believe this is an ad hoc situation for everyone, hence the OP already getting a good reply from oldmacman.

We implemented a new system at work. Online recruiting. We have never done it. While our company is unique, we found other companies who went through the same thing and discussed what they did, how they did it, why they did it. While they had their own reasons that we may or may not agree with, getting their insight was instrumental in putting together our strategy.

And even if it was totally unique situation that will never happen to them or anyone ever again, what is the harm in asking a group of photographers for their input on how to handle the situation? When faced with the unknown, I guess we should all just learn to deal with it on our own instead of seeking input from others??

I just thought it odd he asked for advice after he had already made the agreement. If he had asked here beforehand it would have made more sense. That was my point. Fair enough? Wedding photographers don't take all their photos on speculation, of course, and then hope to sell them. So, that's what struck me as odd.

I guess you read his thread quickly.

He discussed, agreed to terms (10-16 images on the wall, split the money if they sell minus the printing fees). Granted, he should of known the price to charge then.

But then the client wants more...for use on his website. This was not part of the original deal that the OP made, this was requested after. So he wonders whats the best way to handle this. There are varying opinions (charge him for them, dont charge and get traffic to your site, charge somewhat...), but this is what the OP wants.

Then, on top of that first deviation to the original agreement, the company that makes these things ALSO wants images... so again, how best to approach that situation.

So yeah, he should of settled the pricing of the prints with the original client first and had that in the contract. But there are still two other deviations to be delt with.
 
I take the ignore off and Hey, Ho Pedo! You've gone and hijacked another thread by making it about yourself.

Sir, counseling is sometimes a good thing. You needn't go through the rest of your life burdened by so many issues. I implore you to seek and accept help, no one should have to be so miserable.
 
* Lastly, the manufacture of the brew tanks now want to buy the photos for there web site and I have no Idea what to charge them.
I have 50 very good edited pictures of brew tanks. Should I sell them to the tank company as a lot? Or should I price the individual pictures? What should I charge?

All suggestions and advise are greatly appreciated.
You charge for them just like you would any other regular commercial client, by the image and the use. The pricing model is very different from retail pricing (weddings/portraiture).

You sell them a use license that specifies web use only and for a specific period of time.

The size they want to use them at on the web site has a bearing on the per photo cost as does the time period they want the use to run usually 1-5 years. If they decide they want to use them in some other way(s), they would need to purchase a different use license from you for the additional use(s)

For pricing commmercial photogaphy many use software like fotoQuote Pro 6 fotoQuote Pro ? Stock and Assignment Photography Pricing Guide

Visit www.asmp.org (American Society of Media Photographers) and at the left of their home page click on "Business Resources" for both pricing and use licensing guides.

Typical pricing for stock brewery tank images, listed as RM (Rights-Managed):

Advertising

Brochure, inside (up to 5,000) - $615
Brochure, cover (up to 5,000) - $920
Print Ad (up to 1/4 page) - $755
Indoor display (small, 1 only, up to 1/2 display) - $770
Outdoor display (small, 1 only, up to 1/2 display) - $1665​

Publishing

Editorial Web (400 px, up to 3 mo) - $35
Editorial magazine interior (up to 25,000, 1/4 page) - $215
Editorial newspaper (up to 50,000, 1/4 page) - $140
Textbook (up to 10,000, 1/4 page) - $185​

Online

Web or Email (400 px, up to 3 months) - $35
Web or Email (640 px, up to 3 months) - $50
Mobil application - $75.00​
 
Can we please ignore PP. His contributions rarely are of any interest. Let's just ignore him. By responding to him you are just fueling his lunacy and taking away from the OP's thread because most sane people will avoid threads like this. Which is exactly what I was going to do.

But I do like the OP's question and think quite a few members can learn something here soI'll ignore the lunatic.


Now, on to the OP.


Sounds like a nice deal to me. But I have to ask: how much experience do you have with art photography? I don't mean to be insulting or demeaning but there's a huge difference from retail photography to art photography. I have worked in both retail, commercial and art and although there can be creativity (there should be actually, lol) in both retail and commercial work, it is quite a different world.

For example, an art print that size I would not sell for less than $4-500, unframed, and would add to the price depending on the commission the gallery takes. But they would have to be signed and numbered. In the art world there is no such thing as a 2 or 300 run of any image.

However, in a situation like this (dependant of course on your market value as an artist) I may prefer to just do and sell posters. And sell those for $20-25. Maybe selling signed ones for 2 or 3 times as much depending on your reputation in the community as a photog.

Big difference in price but you probably would make more money from the posters than from the art prints if this brewery does tours, has a nice gift shop/tasting room like a micro brewery I once did work for. My work was for their annual report so it wasn't for sale in the gift shop but they sold posters there from an ad campaign for a beer that got quite a bit of media attention. And the posters sold very well.

Your second question would best be answered by looking at one of the pro-photogs organizations' websites. There are lots of variables involved in calculating usage rates and you need to consider them all. You also need a solid usage contract to spell out exactly what you are selling for how much.

I wouldn't put much value on the link to your website. Don't get me wrong, I would make it part of the contract if possible but, let's be honest, how many portrait or wedding customers do you really expect to get from a brewery website?

Your third question, I have just answered partly. Again, you need to look at all the variables, have a solid contract spelling out exactly what you are, etc. Selling batches of photos usually will pay less per photo than selling individuals. You also need to make sure that your contracts with the brewery and the tank company jive with each other.

As I said, it sounds like it could be a good deal but you need to do some serious research and thinking quickly. Good luck to you.
 
And btw, if you were to go the poster way, that does not mean you can't also sell limited edition art prints at the same time. If this brewery has a nice gift shop where the posters are sold, make sure you can hang at least one nicely framed art print somewhere in there and make sure the visitors know they are available for buying. You never know.
 
I would charge how much I always charge:

Cost do due said work + how much beyond that I think my client would pay.

And depending on how much maintenance is required (i.e. if I build a website for someone and they want to change it every so often) I would raise or lower my price accordingly.

Maybe that helps. But the real answer is you do it for free in exchange for a bottomless lifetime mug.
 
Can we please ignore PP. His contributions rarely are of any interest.
+1 (Consider use of the quite effective, User CP - Ignore List feature.)

To paraphrase Joshua (WOPER), the computer in the hit 1983 movie, War Games :lol: :

"The only winning move is, not to play."

Now, if the rest of you would stop quoting the twaddle...........;)
 
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An interesting question and CC, an interesting and well thought out response. Since I actually do both commercial and fine art work, maybe I have a skewed perspective, but to me it seems as though on the surface, it's a reasonable arrangement, but then again, the brewery takes no risk, has no cost and gets free artwork to fill a space and the shooter sets a precedent of willing to work for no creative costs. (and not a good precedent)

What if, and this is directed at the OP, I had a couple approach me about a wedding, I charge them nothing for the entire shoot, and mark up print and album sales just 100%?

Now what if I did this in your market, and advertised no up front costs, pay only for what you want, or not at all???? How do you think this would impact your profitability in that market? Would you be able to compete, be profitable and still pay your bills? These are some of the things that are easily forgotten when we approach any work outside our usual specialties, I realize it's not intentional, and you're far from the only person doing it, but it's one of my hot buttons. No matter what you price your prints and work at, there will always be somebody hungrier than you and willing to work for less, I've seen people give days of work away for the "opportunity" at a future project. I have a fortune invested in equipment, while every other shooter in the area at best can round up one or two monolights, I maintain a 5 pack, 12 head broncolor system just for commercial and location work. It's far from cheap (a flashtube cost more than an entire Einstein), but it's proven itself through the years. The same extends to other equipment, anything mission critical has a backup (or two, three...). It's expensive, but I have to be able to show up on location, shoot what needs to be shot and get the images, regardless of whether I can use available light or need 8,000 w/s. In order to support this type of infrastructure, my fees aren't cheap, but image quality is world class and that's what the customer pays for.


As a commercial photographer, I charge both a creative fee and a usage/licensing fee. Even my fine art prints are not "inexpensive" by any stretch, starting at $225 for a mounted 16x20 open edition (most are quite a bit higher, even for open editions. These are after gallery, net to me prices). My guess is that they talked to some commercial shooters and were blown away by how expensive it is, and you happened to catch the right person at the right time. Whatever you price them at, ask yourself if you can sustain that price point, there will other shots they will want, and since they got you for free the first time, guess what they're expecting to pay?
 

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