If you've been asked to do a job and have agreed to do it, should you...

[HughGuessWho]

The most successful people in life are not the ones that know the most, rather, those that know how to utilize their resources to get the answers they need. This forum is just one of the many resources. Those that don’t get it, can’t or don’t want to.

 

[IByte]

So what?

Here's a news flash: The Photo Forum shows up when you do certain Google searches. So, it meets at least some of the criteria you seem to be setting.

Why shouldn't someone be able to ask basic questions here?

The way I see it, if someone is able to waste the time to hurl vitriol at someone for asking a question, they could've just as easily been helpful in that same time frame.

"Booing and heckling" someone are childish antics. Sure, it's easy to do, and I have to imagine that it makes you feel all fluffy when you get to do it, but why not be helpful? Does it make you feel clever and smart to deride someone who's just looking for a little help? Because, I've got news for you, "clever" and "smart" aren't the first two words that come to mind when I see someone do that.

What do you accomplish by berating someone as opposed to helping them?

You're are right about the booing and heckling part is childish; but in the same sense, many people want us( myself excluded because I.still new to this hobby) to hold their hand and guess where/what OP wants help.

From a personal stand point asking for help is a two way street. Any OP needs to bring us important information in terms of budget, how far does the OP want to pursue this hobby/profession. In what genre does the OP want to specialize in.

Perfect, recent example was a person who bought a D800, started a thread in a bold letters "Help Me Use My d800". It's common courtisey to bring basic information to the table, better yet show some examples with exif to make the "Help Me" experience better. Good debate, solid, no low blows let's get it on lol.


PS. Sometimes people need to learn the hardway. Apologize for any grammatical errors, it's pint night and I'm on a cellio phone.

 

[Steve5D]

On the other hand if the question is something like, "I have been shooting family portraits for years and am well versed in the craft, however it is beginning to seem like every session is the same thing. Does anyone have suggestions for different posing, techniques etc. that I might try?" Personally to me this is a person that can and is doing the job, is just wanting to improve on what they do and has no reason to turn down a job.

It would be nice if that were true.

Not long ago, someone started a thread in which they requested some advice. Also in that thread, they said something to the effect of "I'm a pretty good photographer". Nowhere in that thread was there a wealth of advice. However, people did think it appropriate to ask "You're 'pretty good'? According to who?"

The person was torn apart for that simple statement.

I stand firm in the belief that it's stupid to demean, deride or insult someone for asking a question, regardless of how simple or basic it is. If someone can take the time to criticize a person for asking something so basic, then that person can take the time to be helpful, and they won't come across as a complete and utter ass in doing so.

Additionally, those who defend such replies also come across as complete asses...

 

[Steve5D]

So what?

Here's a news flash: The Photo Forum shows up when you do certain Google searches. So, it meets at least some of the criteria you seem to be setting.

Why shouldn't someone be able to ask basic questions here?

The way I see it, if someone is able to waste the time to hurl vitriol at someone for asking a question, they could've just as easily been helpful in that same time frame.

"Booing and heckling" someone are childish antics. Sure, it's easy to do, and I have to imagine that it makes you feel all fluffy when you get to do it, but why not be helpful? Does it make you feel clever and smart to deride someone who's just looking for a little help? Because, I've got news for you, "clever" and "smart" aren't the first two words that come to mind when I see someone do that.

What do you accomplish by berating someone as opposed to helping them?

You're are right about the booing and heckling part is childish; but in the same sense, many people want us( myself excluded because I.still new to this hobby) hold their hand and guess where/what OP wants help.

From a personal stand point asking for help is a two way street. Any OP needs to bring us important information in terms of budget, how far does the OP want to pursue this hobby/profession. In what genre does the OP want to specialize in.

Perfect, recent example was a person who bought a D800, started a thread in a bold letters "Help Me Use My d800". It's common curiosity to bring basic information to the table, better yet show some examples with exif to make the "Help Me" experience better. Good debate, solid, no low blows let's get it on lol.


PS. Sometimes people need to learn the hardway. Apologize for any grammatical errors, it's pint night and I'm on a cellio phone.

Well, the reality is that, often times, a beginner won't know what they need to ask, or what information they need to have.

And they get raked over the coals for it...

 

[jamesbjenkins]

I was offered a job which was taking me from $18.00 an hour to $155,000.00 a year.

When I was offered the job, I didn't hesitate. I said "yes".The fact that I had only a passing idea how to actually do the job didn't give me a second's pause; I would figure it out. One of the ways I figured it out was to ask advice from those who were already doing the same job.

I've been a membor of countless internet forums over the years, but I'm amazed at the level of vitriol which is directed towards people on this forum who've had the audacity to simply ask for a little advice...

Steve,

I can't speak for anyone else on this forum, and I've only been here for a few months... But, what fries my bacon isn't these people that come on here and ask questions, it's that the content of their questions are so elementary that a simple Google query and 5 minutes of reading would give them a far more complete answer. As IByte said, if someone is asking an informed question about their craft, I am more than enthusiastic to offer my advice (since it wasn't but 3 or 4 years ago I was asking most of those same questions).

However, to everyone who wastes my time and yours with the 1,435,495th "what's a good lens for my (insert entry-level crop body here)?" or the "My friends and family think I'm awesome, help me figure out how to shoot my friend Sally's wedding", you can believe I'm going to be happily posting a not-so-gentle suggestion that they type their question into a search engine instead of being so damned lazy as to expect us to pour the knowledge directly into their cerebrums. There's a reason literally millions of pages of information have already been provided on every conceivable topic a n00b could be pondering...

Just my $0.02

 

[HughGuessWho]

Have you ever considered that sometimes a person doesnt know how to find what they are seeking by using the search feature on this forum? Have you ever used it? It isnt exactly the most user friendly or helpful tool.

 

[GeorgieGirl]

If someone can't google a basic question or look in their manual then they should only have a point and shoot in their hands...

 

[Steve5D]

I was offered a job which was taking me from $18.00 an hour to $155,000.00 a year.

When I was offered the job, I didn't hesitate. I said "yes".The fact that I had only a passing idea how to actually do the job didn't give me a second's pause; I would figure it out. One of the ways I figured it out was to ask advice from those who were already doing the same job.

I've been a membor of countless internet forums over the years, but I'm amazed at the level of vitriol which is directed towards people on this forum who've had the audacity to simply ask for a little advice...

Steve,

I can't speak for anyone else on this forum, and I've only been here for a few months... But, what fries my bacon isn't these people that come on here and ask questions, it's that the content of their questions are so elementary that a simple Google query and 5 minutes of reading would give them a far more complete answer. As IByte said, if someone is asking an informed question about their craft, I am more than enthusiastic to offer my advice (since it wasn't but 3 or 4 years ago I was asking most of those same questions).

However, to everyone who wastes my time and yours with the 1,435,495th "what's a good lens for my (insert entry-level crop body here)?" or the "My friends and family think I'm awesome, help me figure out how to shoot my friend Sally's wedding", you can believe I'm going to be happily posting a not-so-gentle suggestion that they type their question into a search engine instead of being so damned lazy as to expect us to pour the knowledge directly into their cerebrums. There's a reason literally millions of pages of information have already been provided on every conceivable topic a n00b could be pondering...

Just my $0.02

It's only a waste of time if you post something nasty and unhelpful. I don't see how any other option (being helpful or simply not responding) is wasting anyone's time.

As I said, you can Google certain things and this forum will come up in the search results. Should that be ignored and, if so, why?

I read countless questions all the time which I think are ridiculously elementary and basic. Sometimes I'll reply. Other times, if I find myself rolling my eyes, I'll just move on.

Again, something no one apparently wants to answer is the issue of what's to be gained by demeaning someone who simply asks a question?

 

[Steve5D]

If someone can't google a basic question or look in their manual then they should only have a point and shoot in their hands...

Well, that's really kinda' stupid, don't you think?

After all, there's an entire sub-forum here dedicate to "basic". What do you think should go on there, if not "basic" discussions?

And, again, for everyone saying that the person should use Google: Google is how I found this forum. So, if someone uses Google and comes across this forum, why is it so offensive that a beginner would come here looking for help after availing themselves of Google, as is repeatedly being suggested here?

I'll ask you, since no one else seems to want to tackle this little brain teaser: What's to be gained by being unhelpful and demeaning?

 

[Trever1t]

Sometimes letting another member know that the question could be answered with a rudamentary search or that they shouldn't quit their day job is helpful. Not all helpful advice is sweet like a bowl of strawberries eh? Granted there's no need for rudeness.

 

[IByte]

Have you ever considered that sometimes a person doesnt know how to find what they are seeking by using the search feature on this forum? Have you ever used it? It isnt exactly the most user friendly or helpful tool.

But at same if they're having navigational issues, they have the YouTube, and only thing they need to type was Cannon vs Nikon, or go to a Best Buy store(ugh) and feel both bodies. Or a camera store pick their brains(their reputations on the line) Google Fro Know Photos(knowledgable guy IMO), etc. Too many research material to list, but nevertheless resources are out there.

 

[table1349]

On the other hand if the question is something like, "I have been shooting family portraits for years and am well versed in the craft, however it is beginning to seem like every session is the same thing. Does anyone have suggestions for different posing, techniques etc. that I might try?" Personally to me this is a person that can and is doing the job, is just wanting to improve on what they do and has no reason to turn down a job.

It would be nice if that were true.

Not long ago, someone started a thread in which they requested some advice. Also in that thread, they said something to the effect of "I'm a pretty good photographer". Nowhere in that thread was there a wealth of advice. However, people did think it appropriate to ask "You're 'pretty good'? According to who?"

The person was torn apart for that simple statement.

I stand firm in the belief that it's stupid to demean, deride or insult someone for asking a question, regardless of how simple or basic it is. If someone can take the time to criticize a person for asking something so basic, then that person can take the time to be helpful, and they won't come across as a complete and utter ass in doing so.

Additionally, those who defend such replies also come across as complete asses...

I won't disagree with most of what you say. There is no reason to pick them apart for asking a question. There does however need to be some thought on their part when asking a question. Like everything in life you get out what you put in. If a person will take the time to provide a bit if pertinent information in their question it is easier to provide guidance and answers.

As a trained educator, I will state however, that there are stupid questions that get asked. Any question that a simple 5 minutes of research can be answerer on the part of the questioner is a stupid question if they did not do their research. That still does not mean that they should be insulted. Rather that is a question to just be ignored.

 

[GeorgieGirl]

Steve, we've been down this road before.

The majority or people here do not plan or intend to be demeaning. If it happens then it happens. The argument that TPF comes up in a google search is true from time to time. That does not mean that TPF is here to become a customer service center call in center for immediate repsonses for all things photogrpahy just because it is here. TPF is not here to fill that role and there is no obligation to tolerate being used in that manner.

Everyone who works hard to learn and perfect their end results is respected. Those who are looking for short cuts don't really stay here long because they can't make it due to the level of work and dilligence required.

And I really think that you should practice what you preach. My opinion is cetainly not Stupid simply becasue you don't follow it or that you disagree with it, so you just lost big points with me with that inflammatory remark.

 

[jamesbjenkins]

What's to be gained by being unhelpful and demeaning?

Absolutely nothing. However, there is plenty to be gained by reminding people that there are resources on literally millions of webpages (and thousands of threads on this forum) that, with 99.99999% certainty, already answer their question.

A lot of these MWACs want to be spoon fed. I'm not OK with that.

 

[GeorgieGirl]

What's to be gained by being unhelpful and demeaning?

Absolutely nothing. However, there is plenty to be gained by reminding people that there are resources on literally millions of webpages (and thousands of threads on this forum) that, with 99.99999% certainty, already answer their question.

A lot of these MWACs want to be spoon fed. I'm not OK with that.

MWAC's???