Image ownership (UK)

Discussion in 'General Shop Talk' started by Berto..., Sep 1, 2010.

  1. Berto...

    Berto... TPF Noob!

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    Hi guys and gals, first post, so not sure if this is the right section... apologies if it should be somewhere else.

    Anyway, a friend of mine recently entered a photo competiton on another forum... he won. However, he had previously uploaded the same image to the website of the angling club he belongs to, and the administrator of the club website is now claiming ownership of the image, and says that my friend is breaking copyright law on HIS image!!! the administrator is demanding that he removes it from all other areas he may have posted, removes it from the angling forum, and insists that he is the legal owner of the image and it's copyright.

    What are the in's and out's of this situation?

    Berto
     
  2. tirediron

    tirediron Watch the Birdy! Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Wow... that's someone with a nerve I wouldn't want in my tooth. I can't comment on the legal aspects of it, but there are a couple here who will likely be able to speak with more knowledge. I would strongly suggest consulting a lawyer however.
     
  3. Mbnmac

    Mbnmac TPF Noob!

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    If the admin didn't pay for it, he doesn't own it.

    Even if he did pay for it, unless something was stated to the fact that only he was to have this photo, your buddy should still be able to do whatever he likes with it
     
  4. Berto...

    Berto... TPF Noob!

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    That's what I thought. So, are you saying that in order for the copyright to change ownership, then money, or a contract of some kind has to change hands?

    My pal is also worried about the 'small print' on the website:

    "No part of this web site may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means,
    Electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording, or any information storage and
    Retrieval system, without permission in writing from the publisher".


    Sounds like a load of worthless nonsense to me.
     
  5. Flash Harry

    Flash Harry TPF Noob!

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    If your mate wasn't commissioned/employed by this cretin while the photo was taken and he has the original file from camera, then its his, whether he uploaded it or not. The trouble starts if he was paid by this bloke to shoot the pic, and there's also the dodgy grabbers in this country, the BBC and a lot of big name mags have in their T&C's that if the image is freely given to the mag/papers/site they can use it any way they like, even without a credit to the photographer, he did place the pic in the public domain but this bloke hasn't a leg to stand on regards usage or copyright, warn him to remove it from the site or you'll take legal action, in future place a copyright notice across the image. H

    PS. the cheeky git, a notice like that to protect his intellectual property yet nicking off someone else, see a solicitor or simply send him a bill for displaying the image online, usage rights.
     
  6. Flash Harry

    Flash Harry TPF Noob!

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    post the site name, its no big deal
     
  7. skieur

    skieur TPF Noob!

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    The Internet is definitely NOT public domain and by uploading the image to a site the poster has NOT given away his image to the administrator of the site, nor his rights to use the image as he sees fit. The administrator has NO rights to that image beyond displaying it on the site and even that right becomes questionable if the poster demands that it be removed.

    skieur
     
  8. Flash Harry

    Flash Harry TPF Noob!

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    Of course the net is in the public domain, the rest of what you say is correct but there are many sites you have to sign up agreeing to the T&C's which allow these sites usage freedoms. As I said over here the BBC and most magazine sites have similar terms, newspapers are always stealing imagery from the net and face no punishment or pay fees as they reckon uncopyrighted images they use are freely available and already in the public domain. This is the reason I rarely change my own site images or upload anything I wish to sell, either on here or anywhere else for that matter, presently our government are looking into what they call "orphan" works online being free for the taking, so basically without a copyright notice on the image and your details in the exif/meta they reckon its fair to take/use/display or whatever they wish to these "orphans", quality too matters little as newspapers lay off their staffers and publish garbage quality mobile phone "newsworthy" shots. H

    PS. Try googling your own name then click the images tag on the google page, it'll bring up every post you made and whoever's image you discussed, try selling the image, you'll make nothing from it as the majority will simply download a copy for free
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  9. Berto...

    Berto... TPF Noob!

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    So guys, before my pal goes wading in... this is cut and dried, black and white - the website/administrator definately has no right to claim copyright ownership of the image simply because the image was uploaded to his site?

    The administrator seems to think that this - "No part of this web site may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means,
    Electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording, or any information storage and
    Retrieval system, without permission in writing from the publisher
    ". covers him, and implies transfer of coyright ownership of any images uploaded to his site. As far as I can see, it would (possibly) only cover him for text content, and any images for which HE already owns the copyright.

    So, the question is, really; are there any cases or instances that you guys know of, where the uploading of an image to a website means that the website owners then legally become the owners of the copyright?

    Sorry to drag this on guys, just want to be 100% sure.

    Thanks to all for the help so far

    Berto.


     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  10. tirediron

    tirediron Watch the Birdy! Staff Member Supporting Member

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    This is an Internet forum; none of us are lawyers nor do most of us play them on television. If this is a serious issue (ie not just injured pride or a couple of dollars lost) CONSULT A SOLICITOR.
     
  11. danielrwelch

    danielrwelch TPF Noob!

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    Is it not possible for your friend to edit the post and remove it from the forum?
     
  12. skieur

    skieur TPF Noob!

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    The web site is copyrighted just as a book is copyrighted. Both may contain photos but the photo copyright belongs to the photographer not the "publisher" unless the photographer by contract has signed his rights over the the website or book publisher.

    By the way, you did not "copy" the photo from his web site, since it was yours in the first place, so it cannot be construed that you violated his web site copyright at all.

    skieur
     

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