Images taken By police

[O'Rork]

I got singled out because of my gear, without any posted restrictions. I feel like one of the seven dwarfs and it ain't Happy.

 

[dhilberg]

Sorry man, that sucks. However, restore the images if you can, they are yours.

You were coerced into destroying images that were your property. Regardless of whether or not photography is allowed on the premises of a private venue, once you have taken images, they are yours, by law. Short of a court order, private parties or law enforcement have no right to force you to destroy images, nor can they confiscate your film/memory cards (unless you're being arrested). Since it's private property, they can ask you to leave, but that's it.

You neglected to elaborate on your discussion with the three officials and a cop. What were they saying to you?

Next time, take a few printouts of this so you know your rights:
The Photographer's Right

 

[battletone]

I attended "ARENACROSS" at Well Fargo Arena in Des Moines, Iowa tonight. I took my D300 with 70-200 2.8 and no add on flash or bag. My ticket has **NO VIDEO CAMERAS** printed on it. At the door the door man asked if it took video. I answered no, just photos. I had taken a hundred images when a plain clothes person asked me if I had a permit for that camera. I answered no. He said I would have to destroy the images. I said, get a cop. After a log discussion with three officials and a cop. I destroyed the images. On their building it is posted "NO HIGH PERFORMANCE RECORDING EQUIPMENT". The ticket said no video cameras. The officials said it's on their website Iowa Events Center - Home . I couldn't find anything about photo gear on their website.
They let me in with it, at the door after viewing it and asking about video. I am not at all happy about this.
I intend to ask a lawyer, and most definitely pursue the issue upon advisement from council.

You could have counted several hundred people taking video with hand helds and cell phones.

I got singled out because of my gear, without any posted restrictions. I feel like one of the seven dwarfs and it ain't Happy.

I really feel bad for you. I really do. This is the problem with "authority".
I have heard if you have not taken any pictures on the card since then, you can recover what has been deleted. Check into it.

On the other hand....

digital voice recorder - Google Product Search

Don't get caught with your pants down next time. You see a cop or security officer coming at you, or if they sneak up to you, start recording. ...and just remember ONE thing about law enforcement - if they have the right, they won't ask.

 

[Gabriel]

Welcome to the new era, where photographers are newly found enemies. Cops now see us as security threats, parks see us as freeloaders, and corporations see us as threats to their livelihood.

I'm exaggerating a little, but over the past year I have been "told to leave" more times than in over a decade of shooting. I wasn't doing a guerilla shoot, nor did I have a crew; and I certainly wasn't shooting commercially at the time (I get permission for that). Sometimes you really just have to leave, unless you are willing to get arrested over it, but in this country, you don't have to delete your images. This may have been your choice, and I won't give you my opinion on it either way, but just know that not even a police officer can take your film or storage media without a court order, unless they are making an arrest.

If the entity prohibits photography at their events, they must clarify this in a nonequivocal way. This is not something that should be open to interpretation, nor to an official's arbitrary judgment. Cell phone images are hardly usable in an arena environment, but they are still photographs.

If you do consult a lawyer, I'd be curious to hear what they said you could do in this case. I don't think you'll be getting any kind of compensation - and that's probably not what you're after, anyway - but if you can get the arena to change, or at least clarify it's policies, I would think that you've won at least one battle.

 

[Gabriel]

Sorry man, that sucks. However, restore the images if you can, they are yours.

You were coerced into destroying images that were your property. Regardless of whether or not photography is allowed on the premises of a private venue, once you have taken images, they are yours, by law. Short of a court order, private parties or law enforcement have no right to force you to destroy images, nor can they confiscate your film/memory cards (unless you're being arrested). Since it's private property, they can ask you to leave, but that's it.

You neglected to elaborate on your discussion with the three officials and a cop. What were they saying to you?

Next time, take a few printouts of this so you know your rights:
The Photographer's Right

Thank you - I actually have that printout in my camera bag, but lost the original site years ago. I was just looking for it on my laptop, to post it on here.

 

[battletone]

Short of a court order, private parties or law enforcement have no right to force you to destroy images, nor can they confiscate your film/memory cards (unless you're being arrested). Since it's private property, they can ask you to leave, but that's it.

...nor can they view them without a court order.

Next time, take a few printouts of this so you know your rights:
The Photographer's Right

Thank you - I actually have that printout in my camera bag, but lost the original site years ago. I was just looking for it on my laptop, to post it on here.

That isn't a legal document by any means and will have no weight when the cops/security are telling how it is going to be. It is just a general idea of your rights in most places. It is good to figure them out, but to assert your rights with authority it is much easier to stand your ground when you know them off the top of your head. Otherwise they know you are just a couple more pushes away from running out of responses.

 

[battletone]

a receipt from the cop for the images taken.

Too bad when this all goes down, it will be that you did this of your own free will. Thats just how the system works.

 

[Gabriel]

That isn't a legal document by any means and will have no weight when the cops/security are telling how it is going to be. It is just a general idea of your rights in most places. It is good to figure them out, but to assert your rights with authority it is much easier to stand your ground when you know them off the top of your head. Otherwise they know you are just a couple more pushes away from running out of responses.

I understand that. I keep it as a reference only, but it's good to have. I've been a stringer for a small newspaper, and I know what it's like to deal with overzealous rent-a-cops and actual police. I have not, however, been told to delete my images.

 

[Atlas77]

wow, these days photographers are like skateboarders. but skateboarders get asked to leave because they destroy property. Photographers on the other hand dont do anything bad.

Fight the power! eacesign: eacemrgreen:

(sorry for the useless post btw.)

 

[Gabriel]

I did not do this of my own free will. The cop told me to do either, delete or surrender. My free will was to retain my device. His directive Forced me to do either. I might also state that the cop said I didn't have to an a$$ hole about it. I took that as a clue to no longer state my case and avoid a Monday morning arraignment.

I've got my ducks in a row on this and I assure you I will seek council.

Good. Too many people are willing to get trampled on because they are already convinced that they will lose the argument. You're not only standing your ground, you're fighting for some pretty basic rights for all photographers. If you can at least shake these jerks up a bit, you may have gotten somewhere.

 

[battletone]

I did not do this of my own free will. The cop told me to do either, delete or surrender. My free will was to retain my device. His directive Forced me to do either. I might also state that the cop said I didn't have to an a$$ hole about it. I took that as a clue to no longer state my case and avoid a Monday morning arraignment.

I've got my ducks in a row on this and I assure you I will seek council.

You missed my sarcasm....I meant, next time you see him (if you do), the cops story will be quite different than yours.

But you chose to delete your images rather than say no. Cops are allowed to lie to you. They do it all time. Just watch COPS or youtube if you don't already believe it from your first hand experience. Its a hard call to make with a job in morning, but it comes down to your call. But for an issue like this, the cop is very unlikely to take you in for this at this type of venue if you are not getting out of hand. Him calling you an asshole is normal. I simply asked a cop what a statute was that prohibited photography at the airport under the approach... 1 year trespass warning ban from the premises for being "belligerent to officer". The best thing you can do though is say, "I have no problems leaving but I have nothing else to say without an attorney." Then let him blow off some steam before he kicks you loose.

 

[musicaleCA]

You followed the instructions of law enforcement, even though said LEO was out-of-line. In Canada, such coercion is actually assault on one's property. State-by-state laws in the US may vary (this is one thing I hate about the US).

I for one, find it strange that the officer involved wasn't on your side. I would've asked for the presence of another officer, or simply and flatly refused. That either gets you out of the situation, or forces them to arrest you, in which case it's wrongful arrest and you would have a definite case against the arresting officer. The photos would be seized as evidence, but they can't destroy them if they do so.

 

[Josh66]

[...] or forces them to arrest you, in which case it's wrongful arrest and you would have a definite case against the arresting officer.

But you still have to spend the night (or weekend) in jail. That's why most people just comply...



Personally, I would have just told them "OK, I'll just leave then". If they didn't let me leave (with my pictures) I'm not sure what I would do.
If I didn't work where I work, I would probably make them arrest me.
But, since just getting arrested (guilty or not) would likely cause me to get fired - I would do everything I could to avoid that.

 

[musicaleCA]

You folks could send e-mails and tell the photo world to also email and telephone the Iowa events center and show some support for our passion. Imagine how much work will get done Monday morning and how smooth their day will be if deluged with concerned correspondence from masses of ordinary people who take extraordinary images of ordinary people doing extraordinary things for their own enjoyment.

If you really want to do that, I suggest Twitter, MySpace, Facebook, your website/blog if you have one, Digg, and linking them all together to generate interest. Don't forget to link to their email addresses.

It sucks that you were pressured into it. In any case, if it happens in future, I would suggest deleting all the images, not by reformatting, but by using the "delete all" function on the camera. Then avoid writing data to the card. That way, at least some of the data will be recoverable. Well, hopefully. Best try to recover files by either formatting or the "delete all" function first. Doing so could get you out of a nasty situation like this but still let you keep the images.

Gods the US has gotten crazy, hasn't it?

 

[Gabriel]

I have never beet the system. By my choice, I avoided arrest. It was stated by the cop I WOULD do one or the other. Three event/arena officials were privy to all of this. Should the time come, if only the cop lies he'll being wearing the egg on his head. But, I don't suppose it will go that way. They all four were adamant about the whole ordeal. I was painted as the problematic person in question. With only those four and me to tell the tale, I don't think the truth will be supported. But, it seems to me, attorneys have private detectives and telephones so the versions of those involved should be known before any legal action is taken, if ever.

You folks could send e-mails and tell the photo world to also email and telephone the Iowa events center and show some support for our passion. Imagine how much work will get done Monday morning and how smooth their day will be if deluged with concerned correspondence from masses of ordinary people who take extraordinary images of ordinary people doing extraordinary things for their own enjoyment.

I can't find an e-mail on the site, just a "comment card," but what do you want me to say about your situation? I'll gladly give them a concerned reminder about a photographer's rights, but do you want me to refer to your situation specifically?

There's not much space, but I could say something like, "I'm seriously concerned about an incident that I was told, where your security staff, and the police officer that was present, coerced a fellow photographer to delete his images from his camera before he could leave your arena," and then go on to tell them about our rights. Good?