In gear recommendation threads...

[jaomul]

I think it's not so bad for general stuff. I mean I would recommend a Nikon 85mm f1.8g over say a Sigma 50mm f1.4 to someone who uses a d3 and wants to do outside portraits.

Is this wrong? (Irrelevant of others preference) I've owned neither, but prefer 85mm on full frame over 50 for these type of shots, so as long as I explain my reason. I am suggesting from similar experience.

Now if someone asks which focusses faster, I'd be giving a bs answer If I responded because I don't know. It does annoy though when posters just regurgitate an internet review. Most here can use google

 

[Buckster]

There's also the other side of the "rabid fanboy" coin, which is the "rabid no matter how many like it, it's still bad" trooper.

He's the guy who denies, for example, that since the vast number of Yongnuo owners / users are happy with the products and voice few or no complaints, that it means they don't necessarily suck. He then interjects into pretty much every thread where Yongnuo is mentioned and goes into a full-on special essay on the multiple reasons why he KNOWS they suck anyway, even though he himself has never owned or used one. He cites bloggers he rarely even agrees with on any other issue to try to help him make his case. He declares that everything made in China IS without question crap, and he only stops beating that drum after so MANY actual users have stated that they aren't experiencing what he claims that he cannot fight against that tide any longer.

There used to be a guy here like that...

 

[fjrabon]

Should we require all medical doctors to have had ebola in order to offer treatment for ebola?
Must all surgeons have undergone at least one amputation in order to perform an amputation?
What about cancer? Must a cancer doctor have HAD cancer in order to advise patients with cancer?

My favorite recent issue is the Nikon D600 oil flinging issue. Loads of new owners claiming it did not happen. Swearing up and down that the D600 oil flinging issue was a myth.

Turns out, according to Thom Hogan's research that it takes about 4,000 actuations to occur, and from then on it tends to re-occur worse than on as he put it, any Nikon D-SLR he has ever used.

I wasn't saying requiring that you own it to comment. Simply saying that it be standard operating procedure that you make clear your level of experience with the particular product. I wouldn't see a problem with linking to info, or saying "I haven't used it, but this is what I've heard second or third hand."

I think most of us who have posted on here fairly regularly know how to take this info in, who to trust when and who not to trust when. The problem is that newbies (who are mostly the ones creating "which should I buy, a D7200 or 60D" or whatever) don't have any idea who has used what gear.

I particularly remember a while back KmH telling me I was absolutely wrong in saying that an old 80-200 push pull lens would have trouble keeping up focus wise shooting a fast moving sport on a D7100. You look at KmH's profile, and his general high level of quality information, and you think "yeah, sure, trust this guy." But in fact, I had used that exact combo extensively, to shoot sports professionally, and that changing over to a 80200 2 ring on that camera body dramatically increased my number of deliverable images. KmH had never used that combo and doesn't shoot much sports.

This isn't at all to say that you have to have used gear in question to comment, but just that as a guideline for newer posters, maybe we should have a standard (maybe not even requirement) that we try to post our experience level with the gear in question in those threads. We have a handful of users who comment in every gear rec thread and essentially just repeat things they've heard, or even things they just want to be true. Then we have posters who typically only comment on gear they have experience with. What happens is that most gear rec threads tend to be a gaggle of people commenting on stuff they've never used, drowning out the 1-2 people that have used the gear in question, and the new poster has no way of knowing whose opinion to weight, so they end up just going with the gaggle of users who never used the gear at all, since they gave the most opinions.

 

[fjrabon]

I think it's not so bad for general stuff. I mean I would recommend a Nikon 85mm f1.8g over say a Sigma 50mm f1.4 to someone who uses a d3 and wants to do outside portraits.

Is this wrong? (Irrelevant of others preference) I've owned neither, but prefer 85mm on full frame over 50 for these type of shots, so as long as I explain my reason. I am suggesting from similar experience.

Now if someone asks which focusses faster, I'd be giving a bs answer If I responded because I don't know. It does annoy though when posters just regurgitate an internet review. Most here can use google

and even then, I'm not saying you couldn't link to a review. Or even flat out say "I read in a review, but can't find the link..." if you don't remember where. But I see a lot of opinions, that aren't even real world formed opinions, they're more like preconceived notions based on bias then stated as fact.

 

[Derrel]

I felt sorry for the the Yongy fanboys, like you Buckster, who tried soooooooooo valiantly to explain away and or ignore all the dead on arrival problems that specific brand had, for thousands of buyers. Are you still butthurt about me bringing up the shoddy quality control that Yongnuo was plagued with for its first three years? Man, that was over two years ago that we got into that argument! lol... I quietly let it go...but you, you're apparently still burning about it...

I do not need to have suffered through ebola to know that ebola is horrible. I do not need to have suffered through an amputation to know that it sucks to have just one leg.

Being able to see that cheap, made in China gear is prone to a lot of quality control issues is something that an objective person can handle. But the fanboy types who rush to defend their pets are pretty prone to the butthurt syndrome...

I loved what David Hobby, the Strobist site founder himself, wrote about Yongnuo back in 2011, when the &hi+ Yongnuo was making was flooding our shores....my opinion was that Yongnuo's products were sketchy, based only on the tens of thousands of complaints all over the world..and the opinions of experts in the "Strobist" field.

Strobist What YongNuo Doesn t Yet Understand

I found that link by searching for "Yongnuo flash + DOA"...it's on page 1 on the Google search results.

 

[runnah]

I know exactly what you mean, and it's a pet peeve of mine that people who don't know what they're talking about on a particular subject will chime in and post in such an authoritative manner or from a position as a well-known, long-time, respected member of this forum, that their word is taken as matter-of-fact, when in fact, they're just plain wrong, and don't even know it.

This example comes to mind:

Polarizer for ultra-wide angle lens Photography Forum

I see it happen a lot on here. Someone new joins, lurks for a while then starts posting parroted claims as if they are an expert. It's dangerous to those who are just starting out.

Part of me feels on the other hand it's up to the consumer to do their due diligence. I would never dream of spending thousands of dollars without doing hours of research. And frankly if someone goes out and buys an expensive piece of gear only based on the recommendations of strangers on a forum then they get what they deserve.

 

[JacaRanda]

Welcome to the internet era. You can always tell a fanboy when he cannot acknowledge that the entire community's experience has more validity than his own. Or when he screams at those who dare to say anything even remotely negative about the products that he chose to buy.

Would be cool to call these folks out by name even though it may not be Forum decorum.

 

[runnah]

Welcome to the internet era. You can always tell a fanboy when he cannot acknowledge that the entire community's experience has more validity than his own. Or when he screams at those who dare to say anything even remotely negative about the products that he chose to buy.

Would be cool to call these folks out by name even though it may not be Forum decorum.

We have a list...

 

[pixmedic]

There's also the other side of the "rabid fanboy" coin, which is the "rabid no matter how many like it, it's still bad" trooper.

He's the guy who denies, for example, that since the vast number of Yongnuo owners / users are happy with the products and voice few or no complaints, that it means they don't necessarily suck. He then interjects into pretty much every thread where Yongnuo is mentioned and goes into a full-on special essay on the multiple reasons why he KNOWS they suck anyway, even though he himself has never owned or used one. He cites bloggers he rarely even agrees with on any other issue to try to help him make his case. He declares that everything made in China IS without question crap, and he only stops beating that drum after so MANY actual users have stated that they aren't experiencing what he claims that he cannot fight against that tide any longer.

There used to be a guy here like that...

I loved my yongnuo 568EX flashes so much, i bought 6 more of them.
and half a dozen yongnuo 622n radio triggers.
i got them when they first came out, and have not had a single issue with any of them.

 

[Buckster]

I felt sorry for the the Yongy fanboys, like you Buckster, who tried soooooooooo valiantly to explain away and or ignore all the dead on arrival problems that specific brand had, for thousands of buyers.

There was and is no need to feel sorry for those of us who chose to move to a less expensive solution that works great for us. I heard from haters like you about all the thousands of dead on arrival problems, but never found anyone who actually experienced it. Weighed against the multi-thousand satisfied customers and given the inexpensive prospect of testing them myself, I gave them a chance, and I, like many, MANY thousands of others at this point, am very glad I did.

So, again, no need to feel sorry for us at all.

Are you still butthurt about me bringing up the shoddy quality control that Yongnuo was plagued with for its first three years? Man, that was over two years ago that we got into that argument! lol... I quietly let it go...but you, you're apparently still burning about it...

Wasn't butthurt then, and I'm still not. I don't care either way what you think about them. I know they're working out for me no matter what you think, and I see a lot of others around this forum that they're working out just fine for as well. You claim they were "plagued" with problems, but it sure doesn't seem that way to those of us who actually use them.

I only brought it up as an example of the opposite of the "fanboy" you posted about, to say that they too exist. Oops! Did that step on your little toes?? My bad.

I do not need to have suffered through ebola to know that ebola is horrible. I do not need to have suffered through an amputation to know that it sucks to have just one leg.

What's that got to do with anything? Do you think any of the Yongnuo users on this forum are "suffering" with them? LOL

Being able to see that cheap, made in China gear is prone to a lot of quality control issues is something that an objective person can handle. But the fanboy types who rush to defend their pets are pretty prone to the butthurt syndrome...

Let's review...

You can always tell a fanboy when he cannot acknowledge that the entire community's experience has more validity than his own. Or when he screams at those who dare to say anything even remotely negative about the products that he chose to buy.

Interestingly, "you can also tell a" hater "when he cannot acknowledge that the entire community's experience has more validity than his own. Or when he screams at those who dare to say anything even remotely" POSITIVE "about the products that he chose" NOT "to buy."

I loved what David Hobby, the Strobist site founder himself, wrote about Yongnuo back in 2011, when the &hi+ Yongnuo was making was flooding our shores....my opinion was that Yongnuo's products were sketchy, based only on the tens of thousands of complaints all over the world..and the opinions of experts in the "Strobist" field.

Yeah, I remember that. You finally found something to like about David Hobby, who you otherwise bashed at every opportunity. Suddenly because he doesn't like Yongnuo, you acted like you're bestest buds and he's the sole authority on the subject. That's still quite funny to me.

You can always tell a fanboy when he cannot acknowledge that the entire community's experience has more validity than his own.

Go ask this community's Yongnuo users about their experience, and suck up the fact that, by your own words, it has more validity than your own.

Oh, no doubt you've already seen that writing on the wall though, right? As more and more and more members here, especially respected members here, tried, adopted and switched to Yongnuo gear and ended up liking it so much that they had no problems at all endorsing it to others, you went from constant drumming and droning shrieking on about how horrible they were every time they got mentioned, always with the same tired, lame reasoning - to a whisper of your former self who got really quiet about it, sucked up into his shell, and stopped addressing it altogether. What's the matter? Did it finally get too hard to keep tilting at those windmills as more and more and more of them appeared?

You know what happened? You posted an opinion without experience over and over and over and did your very best to try to get people to NOT buy and use Yongnuo products. You tried to take a dump on anyone at the time who had anything positive to say about THEIR OWN ACTUAL experiences with them, saying that it they didn't count. You tried your very best to make people considering Yongnuo think it would be the worst thing they could ever do.

And in the end you were proven wrong. It took a little more time and brave souls to take the chance, thanks to your efforts, but in the end, the truth won out, and you finally piped down.

And that's what this thread is about. People posting authoritative information when in reality they're talking out their sphincters. In the process, they're spreading misinformation and disinformation, sometimes on purpose, sometimes because they just don't know any better. Sometimes they have an agenda, sometimes they're just trying to show off how much knowledge they have to impress others (when it's not actual knowledge, but guesses and hearsay).

It hurts and hinders the people who are looking for real, bona-fide information and answers from people who really, actually have experience and knowledge about a given product or subject. It steers them in the wrong directions, wasting their time and their money.

In my mind, and the minds of many others, that's not a good thing, and we'd like to see less of it.

 

[tirediron]

...I loved my yongnuo 568EX flashes so much, i bought 6 more of them. and half a dozen yongnuo 622n radio triggers.
i got them when they first came out, and have not had a single issue with any of them.

For what they are (relatively inexpensive, MIC) I've been pleasantly surprised by the quality and featureset of the YN line. I've actually got a couple of their TTL cords in my bag, and was working an event the other week with a fellow who had some of their newer style triggers and flashes and they seemed well built and a good value for the price. That said, there are clear differences especially in the quality of fit & finish between YN and "name-brand" gear, but for someone who doesn't have the money to spend on Nikon, Pocket Wizard, etc, it's definitely a viable option!

 

[pixmedic]

...I loved my yongnuo 568EX flashes so much, i bought 6 more of them. and half a dozen yongnuo 622n radio triggers.
i got them when they first came out, and have not had a single issue with any of them.

For what they are (relatively inexpensive, MIC) I've been pleasantly surprised by the quality and featureset of the YN line. I've actually got a couple of their TTL cords in my bag, and was working an event the other week with a fellow who had some of their newer style triggers and flashes and they seemed well built and a good value for the price. That said, there are clear differences especially in the quality of fit & finish between YN and "name-brand" gear, but for someone who doesn't have the money to spend on Nikon, Pocket Wizard, etc, it's definitely a viable option!

I always find it somewhat amusing when people talk bad about third party equipment, and how you should only use OEM gear.....then bring out their pocketwizards, which are no more OEM than Yongnuo.

 

[Buckster]

there are clear differences especially in the quality of fit & finish between YN and "name-brand" gear

I'm interested. Please support that claim. I've seen these kinds of claims before, but have yet to see them actually quantified objectively, and I've asked.

but for someone who doesn't have the money to spend on Nikon, Pocket Wizard, etc, it's definitely a viable option!

I have the money, and bought and used genuine Canon products for years before deciding to try the YNs. After 2 years of testing them side by side, I sold my genuine top of the line Canon 580EXII flashes and ST-E2 Transmitter, and replaced them with more YN's.

The same is true with my triggers. I had no qualms at all about paying good money for a great set of several Radio Poppers to use with my speedlights and studio flashes, but after working with the YNs for a couple years, it just didn't make sense to hang onto the RPs anymore, so I sold them as well.

It's not that I can't afford the name-brand. It's that, for me, dollar for dollar, the YNs are a much better value, and did just as good a job for me, every time, without fail.

Getting back to the actual thread theme though, at least you're now speaking as someone who's handled and used what you're talking about, and I think that counts for something.

 

[pixmedic]

at one point in time, i had several Nikon SB 600's, SB700's, and an SB800.
(and a bunch of SB24's but im not counting them for this)
I got a Yongnuo 568EX when they first came out. I wanted HSS and TTL on my flashes, and up until that point, Yongnuo didn't make a flash with both of those options.
I bought one YN568EX, just to test it, to see how it held up against my SB700 and SB600, considering I could get two YN568's for the price of one SB700.
Except for not using Nikons CLS like the sb600 and sb700 do, I could find no significant difference between the 568's and the Nikon flashes. in fact, the 568 was better than the sb600, and at the very least, equal to the sb700. The yongnuo menu and button options were great, and i have never had one fail to fire, or break on me. I sold the SB600's and replaced them all with 568EX's. I still have one SB700.

when yongnuo released the 622n radio triggers that supported TTL, i picked up a pair of them to test. loved them. bought 3 more sets. never had one fail yet, and they are less than half of what pocketwizards cost. Unless you actually need the 300m range of the PW's vs the 100m range of the YN's, or the 52 channels of the PW's vs the 7 of the YN's, I really cant find any compelling reason to get the pocket wizards over the yongnuos. So sorry if this is shocking and terrifying news to people that spend $400 on a set of PW's instead of $90 in Yongnuos. I sure wouldnt.

its not like yongnuo is the only other flash and radio trigger options that are cheaper than PW's...
i guess people forget about cowboy studio, pixil, phottix...and some are even in the same price range as yongnuos.
all those radio triggers, including PW's, are third party.

im not trying to sound like a yongnuo fanboy or anything...but i AM a big fan of third party equipment when it suits my needs. My tamron and sigma lenses have really done me well so far, as have my yongnuo flashes and triggers.

 

[Overread]

Life is about deciding who to and who not to listen to.

As a forum community we don't have the infrastructure nor team setup which would enable us to "test" users so that only unbaised factual peer reviewed replies are given. It's just not practical for us to even attempt such a thing.

In the end its like all things - we as mods and admin set a standard, we set a tone and hope the rest of the site follows. Members have to be free and are free to choose who they do and don't listen to and the only thing we can do is advise members to read all replies - to ask questions - to find out the "why" of an opinion and to further conduct their own research.
In the end its their choice alone - sometimes members will choose well and sometimes choose poorly. In general I'd say we have more good advice than bad by a large margin; and that we generally have a good varied response to situations where there is no fixed "right" answer.


Closest I think we could get to a feature that might support a sort of approach to what you want is to have a gear "kit" list more formally and clearly shown on users profiles; where upon they can fill in their gear selection and range that they have - with a focus to encouraging more complete kit lists beyond just lenses and cameras (as are oft widely shown in user signatures). If we wanted to (steal ideas from other forums) be bold we could even build a system that itemises the gear into pre-set lists which users could pick from and couple those lists so that each listed item can have its own list of formal reviews/opinions from members listed under it.

However none of that gets around the fact that it still relies upon the integrity and honesty of the individual.