In need of some disection here...

[Alpha]

Alpha, you are a miserable person, what does it matter to you if I sit here all day and play with those photos? She asked for help.....

It matters because you gave what was, in my opinion, terrible advice. The focus cannot be corrected in post, and it's disingenuous to suggest that it can be corrected, or the photo processed heavily enough to distract from the fact that it's out of focus. It needs a re-shoot, plain and simple. As far as I'm concerned, that's not my "purely subjective" opinion, but a suggestion based on the quite objective fact that the shots are out of focus and it's doesn't appear that was really the intention.

 

[Zansho]

I'm sort of inclined to agree with alpha, even if his wording is a bit harsh. If it's out of focus, and nothing that I want in the image is even properly exposed and there's really no hope of bringing it back, I don't bother.

It definitely needs a re-shoot. I understand wanting to help, but the best way you can help her is to tell her how to re-shoot it.

hmm.. maybe I should write a tutorial about flash photography, explaining the basics on my blog...

 

[Zansho]

By the way, when you do your reshoot, keep several things in mind.

Watch your backgrounds and any extraneous elements that can detract from your image. Remember what it is you're shooting - your band boys. The trees in the first image really do not contribute anything positive to the image, and it serves to reduce contrast from your subjects - your subject's black shirts are ALMOST blending in with the trees, which is not a good idea.

Secondly, like stated previously, I'd take your camera's flash and put it on a light stand and fire it remotely (or with a cord attached). Maybe 45 degrees off from you and your subject would be a start. What this does, is help create some shadows on your subjects, and more depth, and more flattering images.

This is an example:

Nevermind the subject matter, I'm just trying to show how effective off camera lighting is.

In this one, I actually dropped the shutter down a bit to make the background more darker, instead of the bright silver/grey it normally is. I used my aperture to control my flash's output, and voila, pretty nicely balanced image!

Keep in mind though, you'll want to make sure you have enough Depth of Field to catch both guys in the image. This will help you in a pinch, but you really should know this somewhat off the top of your head.

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

This will help you calculate where you need to stand, what focal length you're using, and what f-stop you need to get the appropriate amount of DoF.

 

[Crimsonandwhite]

It matters because you gave what was, in my opinion, terrible advice. The focus cannot be corrected in post, and it's disingenuous to suggest that it can be corrected, or the photo processed heavily enough to distract from the fact that it's out of focus. It needs a re-shoot, plain and simple. As far as I'm concerned, that's not my "purely subjective" opinion, but a suggestion based on the quite objective fact that the shots are out of focus and it's doesn't appear that was really the intention.

Well I acutally said nothing and just posted some PP effects to her current photos. I know what you are saying but I also like the challenge of turning something that is bad into something usable. Now is that what you suggest is done with the photos? Obviously not, but I can still give it a go. Maybe she likes it, maybe her client likes it, maybe they hate it and a re-shoot is in order, but for you to come out and trash my PP work is childish and rude.

 

[Alpha]

Well I acutally said nothing and just posted some PP effects to her current photos. I know what you are saying but I also like the challenge of turning something that is bad into something usable. Now is that what you suggest is done with the photos? Obviously not, but I can still give it a go. Maybe she likes it, maybe her client likes it, maybe they hate it and a re-shoot is in order, but for you to come out and trash my PP work is childish and rude.

Aside from the fact that your processing is amateur at best, posting repeated edits simply sends the wrong message. One doesn't learn to shoot by learning to salvage.

 

[Crimsonandwhite]

LOL, good luck sir.....

 

[JaimeGibb]

Woah woah woah!!! Haha.

First off, Alpha, you are right. This definitly needs a reshoot, and part of the reason I came here was to figure out how to do it better next time. I also agree that over-processing a bad photo doent make it a good photo.

CrimsonandWhite, I do appreciate the edits though, because the band actually likes some of these shots and likes the "grungy" look to them (grungyness meaning all the noise and out of focusness...) So until I can reshoot, Ill have to PP a shot to let them use temporarily.

Zansho, I appreciate your insight so much, I have read your posts and your blog and really admire your work. I hope to get to that level someday.

Thorhammer, heip and Richard, also thank you for the feedback, I am trying to take it all in!!

Ok so basically, I need to shoot at a different time of day, understand my settings more so i can shoot in full manual mode (still trying to learn this!) and get my flash off-camera. Is there a cheap way to do this? I definitly cant afford any new equipment right now, and need to work with what I currently have. I am willing however to purchase something that will help me out that wont cost too much.

So is there a cheap way to get my flash off-camera? If not, how can I utilize it as-is?
Would a reflector help in a situation like this?
And would a tripod help me get sharper images, maybe while using my 85mm as opposed to my 70-200mm?

 

[toofpaste]

What's wrong with you guys? Ditch your stupid post-processing band-aids and quit editing the photos...they're out of focus. They need a re-shoot.

Alpha, you are a miserable person, what does it matter to you if I sit here all day and play with those photos? She asked for help.....

I don't care what they say about you Alpha....You're ****ing hilarious

 

[Alpha]

So is there a cheap way to get my flash off-camera? If not, how can I utilize it as-is?
Would a reflector help in a situation like this?
And would a tripod help me get sharper images, maybe while using my 85mm as opposed to my 70-200mm?

If you shoot at the right time of day, you won't need the flash or a reflector. Shoot when the light is even, in morning or just before dusk.

Your focus problem boils down to being too close to the subjects. At this distance, it isn't possible for the lens to keep both subjects in focus simultaneously no matter how much you stop down. So, you need to back up. Google hyperfocal focusing and calculate the hyperfocal distance for your lens. The subject closest to you should be just beyond that point. The one behind him will automatically be in focus. This way guarantees that both subjects are totally in focus.

As for sharpness, shoot it at f8 if you can and if you've got any filters on the lens, take them off.

 

[JaimeGibb]

If you shoot at the right time of day, you won't need the flash or a reflector. Shoot when the light is even, in morning or just before dusk.

Your focus problem boils down to being too close to the subjects. At this distance, it isn't possible for the lens to keep both subjects in focus simultaneously no matter how much you stop down. So, you need to back up. Google hyperfocal focusing and calculate the hyperfocal distance for your lens. The subject closest to you should be just beyond that point. The one behind him will automatically be in focus. This way guarantees that both subjects are totally in focus.

As for sharpness, shoot it at f8 if you can and if you've got any filters on the lens, take them off.

Wow, I never knew that!! Thank you SO much! Im always trying to learn

 

[rubbertree]

great advice.
Why take the filters off?

 

[THORHAMMER]

If you shoot at the right time of day, you won't need the flash or a reflector. Shoot when the light is even, in morning or just before dusk.

Your focus problem boils down to being too close to the subjects. At this distance, it isn't possible for the lens to keep both subjects in focus simultaneously no matter how much you stop down. So, you need to back up. Google hyperfocal focusing and calculate the hyperfocal distance for your lens. The subject closest to you should be just beyond that point. The one behind him will automatically be in focus. This way guarantees that both subjects are totally in focus.

As for sharpness, shoot it at f8 if you can and if you've got any filters on the lens, take them off.

I have to completely disagree although you can get fantastic shots at dusk the shadows are too much 99% of the time for todays small albeit advanced sensors on most DSLRs, For a really artistic intimate look available light is great, but for anything really commercial you really need at least a reflector to even out shadows, can even be a concrete wall the light is bouncing off, but its evening the shadows.

A lot of the really good work you cant hardly tell a strobe/flash was used cause its used properly and diffused basically just there to ease out the shadows a bit and maybe add emphasis on boots or hair or what not.

just my opinion, I might be wrong but at least take some reflectors with you and if your going at dusk make sure there white or maybe 50% gold, but mostly white. Silver prob wont give you enough light @ dusk

 

[Alpha]

I don't see the harm in bringing a reflector, but I don't see that much benefit. With ambient light levels even and slightly low, without a very large reflector you aren't likely to be able to throw very much onto your subject.

 

[Alpha]

great advice.
Why take the filters off?

More glass in front of your glass is generally bad. With a really good multicoated UV filter you aren't likely to affect image quality very much, but if you're not at risk of screwing up your lens by removing the filter, I see no reason not to.

 

[THORHAMMER]

I don't see the harm in bringing a reflector, but I don't see that much benefit. With ambient light levels even and slightly low, without a very large reflector you aren't likely to be able to throw very much onto your subject.

you can bounce your flash off the relfector at half power and perfectly fill racoon eyes. Need another person to hold though.....

I know what your saying though , in a perfect world the camera could see as we see, you could get away with a lot more with medium format prob, or maybe ditigal MF, but for 90% of the outdoor portrait shooters the equipment needs a little helping with tonality