Is a Career Change Possible?

[EIngerson]

Great post.

As a military member I'm coming up on the inevitable transition. After 25 years of service as a United States Marine, I have a potential 5 years left to serve. (If I decide to stay that long) I joined immediately out of high school and I've known this more than I've known civilian life. To be quite honest, the thought of retiring and getting a civilian job scares the hell out of me. Starting over is not something to be taken lightly.

If you do make a transition I wish you the very best.

 

[waday]

Thank you, all, for the wonderful responses!

@KenC, I didn't forget. Apologies for not sending something last night--the night got away from me.

I've changed jobs/career several times, but only once by first returning to college. I did that rather late in life, but even then I was able to repay my loans fairly quickly.

So I'd say it's probably doable, but I doubt if seeking an advanced degree is the correct path. There may be other options for you.

I've debated the advanced degree, but many of the programs I've seen have an MS into a PhD. I've always been interested in this field (as well as doing more research), so the PhD seemed to make sense to me. But, that said, I definitely want to look into potentially another MS instead of a PhD at least to start.

The one friend that worked at a pizza place... did he ever get a job in his field?

Nope
Not even after he got a different degree

The one friend that worked for NASA got straight A's in high school, College/Masters / Phd @ California Berkeley. So, that's your competition in that field.

I have another friend that used to work for Orbital Sciences .. a real rocket scientist. Now is a math professor at a college.

You really need to research what jobs are available in that field and where they are located. Pretty much you'll have to relocate where the jobs are.

That stinks that he didn't get a job! Yeah, competition for those positions must be pretty fierce! The wife and I have discussed relocation, and it would depend on the job. At the moment, I'm more focused on trying to be happy with what I do rather than location/money.

I changed my career a number of times, I think I get bored easily. For whatever reasons ... I have difficulty working with others ... I suspect coworkers are intimidated. I think I am average and expect other to work/participate at the same average level. Working news was fine as we all worked somewhat autonomously. But when I left news and pursued a corporate career, other managers didn't appreciate my minimal expectations for myself and others. So I started my own company, when it became successful, and/or, I became bored, I'd dump it and start another. I started a new company about two years ago. It is struggling, but I know that it will be successful and within the next 30 days I'll probably be starting another.

What do you expect/desire as a return from a formal education? What do you wish/desire to do in physics?

If your dreams are a PhD ... then follow your dreams for the purity of following your dreams, for the purity of accomplishment for accomplishment's sake. If you expect to make more money, be more successful with a PhD as opposed to an engineer ... my initial response is ... think again.

Thanks Gary! I can be the same way--get bored easily. My current job started with me doing a plethora of different and very hard work, which was fantastic. But, it started to flatline and has pigeonholed me in an area that has me stagnant--both professionally and personally.

I have the opposite problem with myself and others--while I think I am average, I work at a very, very high standard, and hold those around me to that same standard. It's very frustrating when that standard isn't met.

I want to learn and do hard work that makes me think. The projects that I like most, and seem to do the best with, are the ones where I have to work at the problem, research, brainstorm, etc. From a formal education, I expect to learn and work hard. Physics was always one class that I loved but found challenging. It's piqued my interest. Within the realm of physics jobs, I'm actually not quite sure at the moment. I know that I've liked astronomy and the stars ever since I was little. I remember visiting the Air and Space Museum, as well as the Goddard Space Center, when I was little. Those had a tremendous impact on me. They are one reason why I went into engineering. If I could combine the engineering background with astrophysics, I'd probably really, really like it. But, I'd have to find that one in a million job. That's definitely something I need to keep researching.

I agree about finding out what the job market is like for that type work. And how much schooling are you talking about? Is it a related field that most of your current degree coursework would count toward?

I can't get past that amount of debt...

But engineering obviously pays more than education (my field) so you'd have to figure out how many years it would take and how much per month you could afford to pay it back. Assuming there are plenty of jobs available - I'd check with any colleges or universities you're considering and talk to someone in their career counseling (or whatever dept. it is) to find out what jobs are in demand.

The change I made after about 10 years in public schools was going into early intervention; I just had to take a few grad classes for that specialization and I took evening classes; paid for them, no loans. Did that for 20+ years, once I got there I never left! lol til an early retirement (due to having a stroke, luckily had my 30 years in).

Don't make the decision now right after the holidays - nobody sounds like they wanted to go back to work today!

Haha! Agreed, making decisions now probably isn't such a good idea! However, this is something that I have been mulling over for quite some time. I feel that I just need to make a decision--career change or employer change.

It's good to hear about your career change and that it made you happy. And that it was worth it.

Some of my schooling would/should count; however, there would probably be an added semester or two of prerequisite classes. It's insane how much money it would cost, at least at the places that I'd like to go. Whether or not I'd be accepted into those programs is another question, haha. I'll have to start contacting some career counseling services at universities, or contact several professors to get their advice.

I contimplated it for a while but ended up not making the switch. A combination of realisation that I probably wasn't best suited to the carrer I was considering and after 10 years of working from the bottom up in the industry I moved into after leaving where I completed my apprenticeship (and not being able to find a job in the same field), things finally fell into place for me and I managed into a position that I could finally consider a carreer as opposed to just a job. Sure, some contracts are not exactly what I'd prefer to be doing but sometimes small steps are needed and some **** needs shoveled along the way. A massive boost for me recently was the company I work for won a big contract that secures our work for the next 6 years, possibly 12 if we do well.

I guess you need to decide whither it's the job that's the issue or whither it's the place you are in or just possibly a stale point in your career (in which case refocusing on a new goal may work). It's not always easy to distinguish between those and can be a really difficult descision to make.

Oh, and if you think about it engineering is really just taking physics and applying it to the real world to create effective solutions.

And yes, I have lots of hobbies. Photography is my creative outlet, Fishing and walking help my desire to be outdoors and get away from it all, I have a big ass smoker in my garden which I fire up when the weather is nice, I rebuild my own fishing rods, am into computer gaming and usualy have some project I can make with my hands on the go and I'm considering getting into jujitsu again after I injured my elbow bouldering last year.

Thanks for the input! I'm worried about the same thing: that I may not be suited to the career (because I'm unfamiliar with the field?) and that it may not be feasible to start from scratch.

One issue I'm having is that I'm asking for work outside of what I'm currently doing and that request does not seem to be happening. I look for jobs, and it's the same type of work. It's hard to tell if it's the employer or the field, because I do have 'issues' with both.

It's very possible that it's a stale point in my career. Before making any drastic changes, I'll need to refocus and see if I can come up with a new goal that could work. Engineering is definitely applying physics to the real world, but that's a somewhat generic statement when you get into the different roles of engineering at a job to job scale. I want to do the calculations and research relating to physics, not using premade software or templates to do the calculations for me. It gets boring real quick.

My wife keeps reminding me to keep at my hobbies. Two hobbies that I want to take up more: reading technical books/documents and stargazing. I feel that I need to keep up with hobbies that make me use my brain, because I feel it's turning to mush, haha.

What kind of personal/professional struggles are there with a career change? (Wife currently supports it, assuming it's what I want to do and we can make it work. Dog probably doesn't care as long as she gets fed and walked.)
...
If you have contemplated a career change, AND YOU DID NOT MAKE THE CHANGE, why did you decide against it?

You may have heard me mention my paralegal studies and brief stints working as a paralegal. In short, a few years back, I reached the "Senior Adjunct" status, which gives almost no perks, but one of them is free tuition, so I did a paralegal certificate part time. I thought I'd try it as a back-up career since adjuncting, many might know, is soul-crushingly underpaid and I didn't know how much longer I could stand it. I've always like law and I know that paralegal work is one of the few areas that is still adding jobs. I wasn't sure if I'd like it or what field I'd go in, but it was free, so what the hell?

In my second to last semester, I took CrimLaw and did an internship at the DA's office and loved it so decided to go ahead and try to get some part-time work. Well, it turned out that it's really hard to break into Criminal Law (on either side, but especially prosecution, which was of course what I was more interested in). And even in civil law, for the most part, before I could get to the jobs that would give me a decent wage and some satisfying work, I would need to be humping it at crappy long-hour, low-paid jobs at insurance or real estate firms for several years.

So professionally, I would have had to start from zero again, especially since my old career field didn't really dovetail nicely into the new career ("Why would an English teacher want to work for Legal Aid???") But also, it would almost certainly mean doing work that didn't mean diddly squat to me, at the very least for several years. I loved the internship at the DA's office and if I had to work in defense, I would have been happy doing work for Legal Aid as well (I don't think I'd enjoy a fancy defense firm, helping to get rich suburban kids out of possession charges ) BUT, it was hard to break into, as I said, and there was the danger of being pigeon-holed as a real estate/probate/insurance/contracts paralegal. And so personally, that would have crushed my soul even faster than living on an adjunct's salary.

I knew this for sure when I got a job working part-time for a lawyer that I called Lumbergh (I knew it the first time he said "Yeah, that would be great.")

He did all the law I didn't want to do, and I can't even tell you how much I hated it. So I quit and decided to give myself a few weeks to really think if I wanted to pursue the paralegal thing, or throw my energy back into making something happen at the college instead. As it turns out, an opportunity came up for a better part-time admin job that has more potential than I've seen in years, so I took that. And so far, I have no plans to give paralegal another go. Perhaps I tried the change too late (I'm 44 and it's not like I'm old but I'm old enough to feel exhausted at the thought of paying my dues in a new profession all over again). Perhaps I didn't want it enough, my heart just wasn't in it (I still enjoy teaching and only enjoy certain areas of law, and not the profitable ones!) And maybe I didn't go far enough (should I have sucked it up, racked up some more debt and gone to law school? Then I could have more easily found work at a DA's office). I don't know. All I know is that it didn't quite work out for me, but that also might be because of the timing of the new opportunities at the college that reduced my need to change careers.

But I do NOT regret trying, so at the very least, I encourage you to take it as far as it makes sense to you.

Crim law is very hard to break into--my wife is an attorney, who works at a non-profit. She has a friend that tried to get into the DA's office (as an attorney), and actually succeeded after several years of applying and hounding them after doing a short internship. She loves it, but it's not for everyone. She preferred that to defense for the same reasons, haha.

It's funny that you mention insurance and real estate firms, because my wife worked briefly for an insurance firm and quit after a few weeks. She couldn't stand her boss, who was a complete jerk. So, she quit. It took about 5 years, but she finally got the job at the non-profit, which she loves. It's hard work but she loves it.

It's good to know that you do not regret trying. I worry that if I don't do something or make a change, I'll severely regret it later. Normally, I'm pretty logical about most decisions I make, such as going into engineering. This time, I'm trying to do what makes me happy.

waday,

I met several University of Arizona Astronomy majors back in the 80's through my association with the Flandreau Planetarium and Steward Mirror Lab on the U of A campus.
Astronomy majors that were struggling with the astronomy math opted for their fall back goal of becoming being nuclear physicists.

Frankly, I would say the worst scenario is to look back years from now and regret not doing what your heart told you to do.

Thank you, Keith. I appreciate the kind words, especially your last sentence. I do worry that I'll look back years from now and regret it. I'm having a struggle between the 'logical' choice of staying in my career, moving up, etc. and doing what my heart wants, which is outside of engineering.

Maybe I should just look at nuclear engineering, haha.

Great post.

As a military member I'm coming up on the inevitable transition. After 25 years of service as a United States Marine, I have a potential 5 years left to serve. (If I decide to stay that long) I joined immediately out of high school and I've known this more than I've known civilian life. To be quite honest, the thought of retiring and getting a civilian job scares the hell out of me. Starting over is not something to be taken lightly.

If you do make a transition I wish you the very best.

Thank you for the well wishes! Starting over is frightening at the very least. Good luck with your transition!

 

[jcdeboever]

Great post.

As a military member I'm coming up on the inevitable transition. After 25 years of service as a United States Marine, I have a potential 5 years left to serve. (If I decide to stay that long) I joined immediately out of high school and I've known this more than I've known civilian life. To be quite honest, the thought of retiring and getting a civilian job scares the hell out of me. Starting over is not something to be taken lightly.

If you do make a transition I wish you the very best.

The good news is you can be a little more picky since you will be drawing a check already. The bad news is you will figure out real quick how undisciplined most people generally are in comparison to the military. My suggestion would be a corporate job with a successful company that has been around a long time, an example would be a company like Sherwin Williams. Successful, long term corporations are highly structured and very similar to military and they are looking for men like you.

 

[astroNikon]

I would love to have a job gazing the stars - well, that's not astrophysics, just star gazing.
Or planning non-human space travel.
But I've also seen what is involved schooling-wise, though 30 years ago. So for me it's a hobby with stargazing, which in itself is expensive (and you thought a camera was expensive). Physics just wasn't my cup of tea in college.
==> So You Want To Be An Astrophysicist? Part 1: being an astro major

But if you have the drive (and connections help) then I'd say go for it. But also do research on which school you go to and where the graduates actually work at. I looked at this once and if you went and Aced all your classes at a big school like Cal Berkley, or MIT, Princeton, Stanford, etc then you have a good probability. Even Univ of Michigan wasn't considered high caliber for it, but never say never.
==> Astrophysics and Astronomy Rankings - PhDs.org Graduate School Guide
==> The Best Astrophysics Institutions for Americans.

And then you'll be scratching your head for a lifetime ... heck, they can't even decide on whether Pluto is a planet or not.

 

[SquarePeg]

Don't make the decision now right after the holidays - nobody sounds like they wanted to go back to work today!

This!!! I think everyone hated their job yesterday morning.

 

[astroNikon]

One of my kids therapists told me "never say never about a career change. If you want to do it then it only takes determination to make it"

So I told her I wanted to be a pro bicycle racer again ... nope, ain't gonna happen at my age
. . . thought I'd throw in a funny but true story

 

[Gary A.]

I think you like solving problems. What type of engineer are you? If applicable, think your next hobby is to use your engineering experience to solve problems with non-profit/NGO type groups. Take your vacations an travel to third world countries to apply your engineering skills to the non-profit/NGO project(s).

 

[waday]

I would love to have a job gazing the stars - well, that's not astrophysics, just star gazing.
Or planning non-human space travel.
But I've also seen what is involved schooling-wise, though 30 years ago. So for me it's a hobby with stargazing, which in itself is expensive (and you thought a camera was expensive). Physics just wasn't my cup of tea in college.
==> So You Want To Be An Astrophysicist? Part 1: being an astro major

But if you have the drive (and connections help) then I'd say go for it. But also do research on which school you go to and where the graduates actually work at. I looked at this once and if you went and Aced all your classes at a big school like Cal Berkley, or MIT, Princeton, Stanford, etc then you have a good probability. Even Univ of Michigan wasn't considered high caliber for it, but never say never.
==> Astrophysics and Astronomy Rankings - PhDs.org Graduate School Guide
==> The Best Astrophysics Institutions for Americans.

And then you'll be scratching your head for a lifetime ... heck, they can't even decide on whether Pluto is a planet or not.

Thanks for the links! That first one is really good and is pretty much exactly what I expected and want, haha.

Pluto is not a planet.

I think you like solving problems. What type of engineer are you? If applicable, think your next hobby is to use your engineering experience to solve problems with non-profit/NGO type groups. Take your vacations an travel to third world countries to apply your engineering skills to the non-profit/NGO project(s).

I do like solving problems (and finding problems to solve). I'm an environmental engineer, so I deal mostly with hydrology/water/water treatment/wastewater treatment/etc. Unfortunately, most of my work now is involving how to deal with regulations. I like it, but I miss the technical work.

At least at my company, technical problem solving and level of responsibility are inversely proportional. As years of experience increase, it's encouraged to go into project management rather than be a technical expert. In other words, they want us to make more money for the company, and they don't care about our personal/professional needs. As a PM, I'll have business development goals, as well, so the time spent on actual engineering work goes way down. It's one thing I'm struggling with as I'm being forced into the PM route. It's very possible a change in companies would help, but many of those around me act in similar ways.

If I ever get to the point where I have enough PTO to take off (and cash) to go on NGO travels, I would like that very much.

 

[astroNikon]

Pluto is not a planet.

yeah, it's a Plutoid now, or a Dwarf Planet in the Kuiper belt.
It still spent 73 years as a planet. The longest reign of a planet that had it's planet status revoked in the Solar System.
It's also a Goofy Disney character.


even my 4th grader corrects me when we list out the planets and I include Pluto .. it's a habit.

 

[Gary A.]

Interestingly, we have some commonalities. I used to do environmental engineering, ( I was even an Environmental Commissioner for the City of Los Angeles). Yes, the management of construction, especially for governments which the paperwork is as important as the actual construction, is where the money is made or lost ... and paperwork is the key to getting paid. I think/know there is a lot of opportunities in your given career path to get back to what you love to do. Smaller companies need people with a design-build attitude. But in your arena, there are few small companies and very few, if any, have the bonding to responsibly bid government projects. Don't know much about private sector.

As for NGO work, you need to hook up with a few and start working with them. Design starts at home. They will pay your way for you to execute the design. Water and sanitation projects are needed everywhere. Design same to utilize local ecological concerns and elements are important. One of the most effective environmental/life improvement concern is this guy who started shipping porta-potties to areas of the world where there isn't any plumbing. He has done more to clean-up the local water and lessen disease than anyone else. If you can better a porta-potty, Mr. Engineer, you will be a jammin' hero.

 

[limr]

I do like solving problems (and finding problems to solve). I'm an environmental engineer, so I deal mostly with hydrology/water/water treatment/wastewater treatment/etc. Unfortunately, most of my work now is involving how to deal with regulations. I like it, but I miss the technical work.

At least at my company, technical problem solving and level of responsibility are inversely proportional. As years of experience increase, it's encouraged to go into project management rather than be a technical expert. In other words, they want us to make more money for the company, and they don't care about our personal/professional needs. As a PM, I'll have business development goals, as well, so the time spent on actual engineering work goes way down. It's one thing I'm struggling with as I'm being forced into the PM route. It's very possible a change in companies would help, but many of those around me act in similar ways.

If I ever get to the point where I have enough PTO to take off (and cash) to go on NGO travels, I would like that very much.

Sounds like what my brother is going through. He is a mechanical engineer, specializes in climate control systems (I'm not sure if that's what he wanted to specialize in, or if that's what he ended up getting a job doing.) The last time we had a conversation about work, he was saying the same things - once you prove yourself, you end up being "promoted" and dealing more with project management and just management in general instead of actual engineering work. Of course, even though he really doesn't like it and wishes he could just be an engineer again, he has to stay where he is. Has to keep his wife in the lifestyle to which she has become accustomed And that's all I'll say about that.

 

[waday]

Pluto is not a planet.

yeah, it's a Plutoid now, or a Dwarf Planet in the Kuiper belt.
It still spent 73 years as a planet. The longest reign of a planet that had it's planet status revoked in the Solar System.
It's also a Goofy Disney character.


even my 4th grader corrects me when we list out the planets and I include Pluto .. it's a habit.

Oh, Disney. He's absolutely nothing like the Roman god of the Underworld.

Interestingly, we have some commonalities. I used to do environmental engineering, ( I was even an Environmental Commissioner for the City of Los Angeles). Yes, the management of construction, especially for governments which the paperwork is as important as the actual construction, is where the money is made or lost ... and paperwork is the key to getting paid. I think/know there is a lot of opportunities in your given career path to get back to what you love to do. Smaller companies need people with a design-build attitude. But in your arena, there are few small companies and very few, if any, have the bonding to responsibly bid government projects. Don't know much about private sector.

As for NGO work, you need to hook up with a few and start working with them. Design starts at home. They will pay your way for you to execute the design. Water and sanitation projects are needed everywhere. Design same to utilize local ecological concerns and elements are important. One of the most effective environmental/life improvement concern is this guy who started shipping porta-potties to areas of the world where there isn't any plumbing. He has done more to clean-up the local water and lessen disease than anyone else. If you can better a porta-potty, Mr. Engineer, you will be a jammin' hero.

Very nice! How did you like being the Environmental Commissioner? I'm working for a very large company--I'm one of probably 80-90,000. While our company many work with the gov't, my department does not. Most of my work is for large power plants and pipelines. When I try to apply to smaller companies, they don't want my experience, because they don't have those clients. So, my experience is useless to them.

I've submitted a volunteer application for my local municipality's environmental commission (they're looking for board members), but I'm not expecting a call back. Instead of looking at my resume, I could tell the guy just thought I was too young when I handed my application in--oh, well. I'll have to contact an NGO. I know of a few people that are either currently doing it or wanting to do the same, so I'll get some contact info.

Sounds like what my brother is going through. He is a mechanical engineer, specializes in climate control systems (I'm not sure if that's what he wanted to specialize in, or if that's what he ended up getting a job doing.) The last time we had a conversation about work, he was saying the same things - once you prove yourself, you end up being "promoted" and dealing more with project management and just management in general instead of actual engineering work. Of course, even though he really doesn't like it and wishes he could just be an engineer again, he has to stay where he is. Has to keep his wife in the lifestyle to which she has become accustomed And that's all I'll say about that.

Yes! Exactly that, we get 'promoted' (quotations meaning a forced promotion) and end up in management with no engineering work. All they want is someone with a PE behind their name to go around trying to get new clients and dealing with money. To be fair, this is somewhat of an issue with my current company. We were one of the largest firms and got acquired by another of the largest firms. The new firm cares more about money and profits than they do about getting work done and repeat business, so being in management really stinks.

Our company has two tracks: technical and project management. You get forced into PM rather than the technical route, because PMs bring in more work. I'd much rather be a technical expert on something than have X number of projects under my belt (even though being a PM means more money). I don't care about money, I care about being happy.

Don't get me started on the salary/lifestyle issue, haha. While I admit I do have a good salary, engineers aren't paid nearly what people think they are. Same with my wife. She's a non-profit attorney. Key term: non-profit. When we were at the dealership buying a car, the asinine salesman was like, "oh, with a salary in the six digits as an attorney..." We were buying one of the cheapest cars on the lot. I make one-and-a-half times what my wife makes, and neither of us are close to six digits. If we were rich, we wouldn't be asking about financing.

This could very easily turn into a ranting session, if it hasn't already, haha.

 

[vintagesnaps]

You know I was thinking, you're relatively young-ish, it might be worth looking into any/all possibilities instead of staying with doing something you don't enjoy. I say any/all because I've ended up doing something that wasn't anything I'd planned like shooting sports (hockey) or going into early intervention (babies? who'd've thought!).

But the flip side is the practical aspects of it. You probably don't want to end up with a doctorate and working at the quickie mart. (That literally happened to someone I know, was managing a convenience store til he finally got work again in his field; I know someone else who go laid off and it was years getting something besides working at wally mart.)

Gary may be on to something, maybe doing work that's more fulfilling than getting contracts or clients etc. would be a nice change of pace. I guess there's good and so-so in any job, the advantage of working in public school or a county agency was it being to provide services, not round up more clients (we used to say we'd never be out of work) but the not so fun part was rules and regs and PITA red tape (we'd also talk about our department of redundancy dept.! lol). There's probably something out there for you, it's probably a matter of figuring out what it is.

 

[waday]

You know I was thinking, you're relatively young-ish, it might be worth looking into any/all possibilities instead of staying with doing something you don't enjoy. I say any/all because I've ended up doing something that wasn't anything I'd planned like shooting sports (hockey) or going into early intervention (babies? who'd've thought!).

But the flip side is the practical aspects of it. You probably don't want to end up with a doctorate and working at the quickie mart. (That literally happened to someone I know, was managing a convenience store til he finally got work again in his field; I know someone else who go laid off and it was years getting something besides working at wally mart.)

Gary may be on to something, maybe doing work that's more fulfilling than getting contracts or clients etc. would be a nice change of pace.

Woo! I got the approval! Considering my age, I want to look into something that will make me happier, even if it's not my 'dream job'. I'm tired of always going the practical route at the expense of happiness. Don't get me wrong, I'm not unhappy with where my life has taken me. I'm thankful that I have a decent-paying job, a roof over my head, food on the table, family to love, and a community of friends (in person and online) that are just great people.

That 'flip side' you mention is definitely something that I worry about, especially since I've typically always gone the practical/logical route. My wife worked at Starbucks, Lenscrafters, other retail stores, and as an administrative assistant before finally finding a job in her field, which took a long time. What happened to her and what happened to your friends (i.e., being years before finding a job) is what scares me, because we probably wouldn't be able to make it work financially.

Gary's comments are similar to others I've heard when contemplating career change. Some people make a small change in their life, such as adding 'extracurricular' activities, that have a profound impact on their lives--it made their current work livable. Prior to doing anything drastic, I need to refocus and come up with a new goal.

I keep forgetting that work is only one-third of my day, leaving two-thirds to do what I want (sleep and eat ).

 

[407370]

I have no qualifications at all. I managed to move from a heavy physical job to designing computer systems by going to night school. I do not regret it one bit as I have earned enough to keep my family warm and fed for 30 years. The one thing I would never do is mix business with pleasure so I would never plan to make money from any of my artistic endeavors including photography.