Is there anyone left who wants to learn?

[Antarctican]

Reading this thread reminded me of something else i read http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html
It's quite funny

OMG, it sure is funny! Loved it!!! And highlights in a humorous way Elsaspet's point

 

[Aquarium Dreams]

I know I'm new, therefore I have no place commenting on this thread, yet the very fact I'm new suggests most people will disregard what I say anyway, so I figured, why not?

The problems that people are complaining about here aren't specific to this forum, or to the internet. People just like to talk, which includes passing on unverified information they just heard the other day, as much as it includes seasoned members of a group complaining that things aren't the way they used to be. People everywhere do these things. Sometimes people even make comments with the intent of being helpful, but these comments turn out to not be helpful, due to miscommunication (the helper not understanding correctly what was asked) or the fact that the person asking knows more than the helper realized, and both of those things happen everyday, in any number of situations, and while it's annoying, it's understandable. But what it sounds like is that you're asking people to not even comment, unless:

1. They have researched the poster's skill level, by reading past posts and surveying their work and accomplishments.

2. They have researched the skill levels of everyone else who has commented in the same way.

3. They have researched other, more prolific forum users, to find out if anyone else might have the answer instead.

4. They use the search option and make sure that the question has not been answered already by one of the aforementioned prolific forum users (even though the original poster might not have done this).

5. They've been here long enough that they remember the good old days and/or they have a photography business.

Are there any other requirements for people who want to learn?

I'd like to think most adults have enough discernment to research new information, if they don't know the source well enough. Most people have a healthy scepticism about news received from strangers, but I'd like to think that most people have enough class to say thank you to the stranger, anyway. If a stranger compliments you on your clothes, you don't scoff and say, "Look at the way you're dressed. What do you know about clothes? Are you in the biz? Have you been for many years? This is the first time I've seen you in the mall and I've been coming here for years. You don't know anything about clothes. Why are you even wasting my time? Someone who knows more about clothes can give me their opinion, and if they don't, I have friends who have been coming to this mall for years, and they all dress really well, so if I wait long enough, I can get an informed opinion. Keep coming to the mall, and show me more of your outfits, and maybe one day, I'll take your opinion seriously." Maybe that's what most people are really thinking, but because it's not the internet, and they have to look at the person, and see the sincerity in their face, they just smile and say, "Thank you."

It sickens me, that now every thread I read, I'm going to wonder, am I qualified to answer this person's question? And even if I am, there are going to be alot of other people who are also qualified, so why not just leave it to them? Why don't we all just read and learn from those few who have proven themselves over time and with their accomplishments. Why not just make this a magazine instead of a forum?

Personally, I appreciate comments from everyone. In forums in general, if someone has been on the forum a long time, or is a talented photographer, I appreciate that they have spent the time answering my question or acknowledging me at all, and I'm relieved that not everyone is snobbish about what's worth their time and what is not. If someone has no website or only a few posts, I'm equally happy, because to me, an opinion by anyone else is valuable, because it's an opinion other than my own. If someone tells me something I already know or something I know is wrong, I still thank them, because their intentions were good. I speak of forums in general, but I only signed up last month, and already I've seen a number of threads where it's clear the person who posted is looking for comments only from a select few people. I wish those people would start their posts with a disclaimer: PLEASE DON'T BOTHER POSTING UNLESS WE'VE COMMUNICATED WITH ONE ANOTHER BEFORE. or post a list of the users that they would accept answers or comments from. Or better yet, start a private yahoo group as a supplement to TPF. Here's the link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/

Now I'm going to go make 200 posts, many of which will illustrate exactly what this thread complains about, because this is a public forum and I can.

 

[Puscas]

If a stranger compliments you on your clothes, you don't scoff and say, "Look at the way you're dressed. What do you know about clothes? Are you in the biz? Have you been for many years? This is the first time I've seen you in the mall and I've been coming here for years. You don't know anything about clothes. Why are you even wasting my time? Someone who knows more about clothes can give me their opinion, and if they don't, I have friends who have been coming to this mall for years, and they all dress really well, so if I wait long enough, I can get an informed opinion. Keep coming to the mall, and show me more of your outfits, and maybe one day, I'll take your opinion seriously."

I really get your point. And this really made me laugh! (I imagined this happening in real life, and over and over again...lol...)




pascal

 

[Hertz van Rental]

If a stranger compliments you on your clothes, you don't scoff and say, "Look at the way you're dressed. What do you know about clothes? Are you in the biz? Have you been for many years? This is the first time I've seen you in the mall and I've been coming here for years. You don't know anything about clothes. Why are you even wasting my time? Someone who knows more about clothes can give me their opinion, and if they don't, I have friends who have been coming to this mall for years, and they all dress really well, so if I wait long enough, I can get an informed opinion. Keep coming to the mall, and show me more of your outfits, and maybe one day, I'll take your opinion seriously."

But what if the same stranger comes up and tells you that your clothes make you look frumpy/old/ugly/stupid?
I think your reaction would then be justified.

People post pictures for a variety of reasons, and people who post responses do so for a similar variety of reasons. Most of these reasons are nothing to do with photography.
In an ideal world people commenting would all try to engage their brains first before saying anything but...
So the onus falls on the person posting the image in the first place and how they handle comments.
The problem with Photography is that it is very personal. The pictures you take reflect you, your likes and dislikes, your aspirations, your 'inner being'. It is therefore easy to see any criticism of your pictures as a criticism of you personally.
Try to get over it.
If you ever go professional then the first time you show your folio to an art director and they flick through it in 30 seconds, look bored and say 'so what else have you done?' you will go home and slash your wrists.

All criticism is just personal opinion and we are all entitled to have an opinion. Be selective. Take whatever is of use and ignore that which is not.
I know it's hard to figure out which is which when you are a 'beginner' but you'll get there if you persevere.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

 

[LaFoto]

People post pictures for a variety of reasons, and people who post responses do so for a similar variety of reasons. Most of these reasons are nothing to do with photography.

Anything wrong with their reason being the desire to communicate in the first place and talk about photography, or THE photo in question, or even the SUBJECTS in the photo in question, only in the second place?*

In an ideal world people commenting would all try to engage their brains first before saying anything but...

Does the desire to take the photos as the basis for a CONVERSATION on a forum like this one mean that the one who likes to just talk about "things" (that spring to mind caused by the photo in question) mean that the brains are still on "hold" only?*

(Pssst: *->advocatus diaboli only)

 

[Hertz van Rental]

Anything wrong with their reason being the desire to communicate in the first place and talk about photography, or THE photo in question, or even the SUBJECTS in the photo in question, only in the second place?

I didn't say anything was 'wrong' in the first place. I was merely pointing out that people do things for a myriad reasons and that it is always worth bearing this in mind.
Besides, all your examples are to do with photography so I am purposely going to misunderstand your point! :mrgreen:

Does the desire to take the photos as the basis for a CONVERSATION on a forum like this one mean that the one who likes to just talk about "things" (that spring to mind caused by the photo in question) mean that the brains are still on "hold" only?

Not at all. If someone takes a picture with the specific intent of using it as a basis for a conversation, or if someone starts a conversation using someone else's picture as a basis, it shows that there is some thought and intent there so communication is possible.
Photography is a means of communication after all.
Although I might revise my opinion if the conversation consists of nothing but the word 'cool'.




And I'm just being :bigangel:

 

[Aquarium Dreams]

Hertz van Rental: I agree with everything in your post. I don't think I've stated anything differently, though perhaps I was ranting incoherently or slipped into sarcasm, which can easily be understood (I try to avoid it for that reason). But I agree with everything you said. What did I say that you didn't agree with?

I also wrote, "Sometimes people even make comments with the intent of being helpful, but these comments turn out to not be helpful, due to miscommunication (the helper not understanding correctly what was asked) or the fact that the person asking knows more than the helper realized, and both of those things happen everyday, in any number of situations, and while it's annoying, it's understandable." I think that just happened between us. I don't know what you think I meant, but I'm all for everyone posting their opinions and everyone reading to be mature enough to decide when to take them or leave them, instead of trying to enforce some kind of guidelines telling people that they shouldn't even bother commenting if they have less experience than other people or that they should only leave certain types of comments. I would rather hear everyone's opinion and sort out what's useful and what's not at the end, than to only hear a select few opinions. Why not just make a list of acceptable opinions and we can all just copy and paste? (Did someone already say that? It sounds familiar.) I'm ranting again, I have to stop.

If you ever go professional then the first time you show your folio to an art director and they flick through it in 30 seconds, look bored and say 'so what else have you done?' you will go home and slash your wrists.

It's funny you mentioned that, because the first time I showed my work to an art director, she offered me a one person show in her gallery, and when I heard the news, I almost passed out and cracked open my head, so yes, you could say I was in definite danger of hurting myself.:lmao:

 

[Hertz van Rental]

Hertz van Rental: ... What did I say that you didn't agree with?

Did I disagree with you? Because I don't.
I was just pointing out that though one's reaction to a compliment is to not question a person's qualifications, competence or sanity it is quite a different matter when someone gives you the opposite.
For example, you post a picture and someone says 'that's amazing'. Despite the fact that it doesn't really tell you anything useful about the picture it is impossible to feel anything for the critic other than you want to have their babies.
But if someone tells you your picture is out of focus, lacking in contrast or has a bad crop you are on that 'phone taking a contract out on them before the page has finished loading. You spent weeks getting it to look like that and then some illiterate moron who can't even spell 'camera' let alone use one has the bare cheek to... etc etc etc.



I think your AD must have had an off day (or you were very lucky). All the ones I dealt with were so jaded that if Michaelangelo had walked in they would have said 'but what have you done recently?'