ISO and my new Digital Rebel. :(

imakefights · Dec 22, 2004

I photograph boxing often. And to do so succesfully you need a camera that can shoot in poor lighting without a flash with a high shutter speed. So I chose the digital rebel based on its maximum ISO setting of 1600.

Using the stock 18-55 lens with the lens fully open I took the pic below at 1/500 1600 ISO. And the result was very dissapointing. I then took my old Canon Powershot and took the same pic at 1/500 400 ISO and the results were virtually identical. Can anyone tell me what am I doing wrong? Did I just waste $800?

Thanks

Bokeh · Dec 22, 2004

imakefights said:
I photograph boxing often.

We shoot in very similar conditions...

imakefights said:
And to do so succesfully you need a camera that can shoot in poor lighting without a flash with a high shutter speed.

Well, just as important, you need a really fast lense.

imakefights said:
Did I just waste $800?

When I shoot events that use a boxing ring and simliar lighting, I shoot with a Canon 50mm 1.4. This was recommended to me by a pro I talked to who shoots a lot of boxing events here in TeXa$. It was definitely, definitely the lense to get. I shoot all indoor sports with that lense, assuming the focal length is appropriate.

oriecat · Dec 22, 2004

How was the aperture set?

imakefights · Dec 22, 2004

Aperature was 4.5.

Big Mike · Dec 22, 2004

Welcome to the site,

First of all, it appears you have a bright light and a dark hall-way. It looks like the exposure metering is set to matrix so both cameras are trying to get an average exposure of the scene. A better test would be a scene that did not have a bright light in it.

I don't think you will get more exposure latitude with either camera...film is still king here. What you do get with the Rebel is clearer images with less noise. It's hard to tell but it looks like the power shot has more noise at ISO 400 than the Rebel has at ISO 1600...that's a pretty big advantage.

As mentioned, a faster lens will be a huge help when shooting boxing. A lens that will open up to F1.4 would be ideal but you can usually get an F1.8 for 1/3 or 1/4 of the price. That's the biggest advantage the rebel has...you can upgrade to any of Canon's EF lenses.

imakefights · Dec 22, 2004

I guess the lens makes all the difference but I am still a little shocked by the fact I am getting no better results at 1600 than a far "inferior" camera gets at 400 regardless of the lens. I notice no more noise in the Powershot photo than in the Rebel photo. I reduced their size so the page would load faster but at full resolution the only difference is the white balance.

How much difference will I notice between a 50 1.3 and a 50 1.8?

Thanks
Bobby

voodoocat · Dec 22, 2004

Your "results" are underexposed. Doesn't matter if you use a $10 disposable camera or a $5,000 Leica... if you don't expose the film or sensor, the results are going to be poor.

You need a faster lens. 1.8 is a stop slower than a 1.4 lens.

Big Mike · Dec 22, 2004

imakefights said:
I guess the lens makes all the difference but I am still a little shocked by the fact I am getting no better results at 1600 than a far "inferior" camera gets at 400 regardless of the lens. I notice no more noise in the Powershot photo than in the Rebel photo. I reduced their size so the page would load faster but at full resolution the only difference is the white balance.

How much difference will I notice between a 50 1.3 and a 50 1.8?

Thanks
Bobby

The difference between F1.4 & F1.8 is one stop. So you can increase your shutter speed by one stop (twice as fast) or you could lower your ISO by one stop.

I still think your test scene is not a good indicator. Try testing by shooting a solid color like a wall or a even a news paper page to see the resolution difference.

Another huge difference, especially in boxing is the shutter lag. How fast does the Powershot take the picture after you press the button? How fast does the Rebel? It would probably be very difficult to shoot fast action, when timing really counts, with any p&s digital camera.

You could always take both cameras to a match and see if the Powershot will work for you. If it does, then take your Rebel back. I'm guessing that you would find the Rebel to be much better when you are actually shooting a match.

BernieSC · Dec 22, 2004

how many different shutter speeds did you shoot at? You only mention 500th of a second did you try 250 or even 125th? but leave the aperture set at 4.5. I assume since its a zoom 4.5 is the fastest aperture.

hlasso · Dec 22, 2004

You can see in the images that the light source at the top right corner is making the metering system underexpose the other areas of the pictures.
You should try with a less contrasted area (all subjects illuminated by approx. the same intensity) such as a wall. As the others have told you, a faster lens might be what you're looking for.

Regarding the shutter lag, the Rebel will give you up to 2.5 fps if you use a fast shooting speed (1/250 and faster). According to specs in the manual you can shoot up to 4 shots in bursts... My experience has shown that the Rebel is really slow when recording the images to the CF card, especially when using RAW format.

DocFrankenstein · Dec 22, 2004

BernieSC said:
how many different shutter speeds did you shoot at? You only mention 500th of a second did you try 250 or even 125th? but leave the aperture set at 4.5. I assume since its a zoom 4.5 is the fastest aperture.

He needs 1/500th for boxing... Anything slower gets you blurred hands.

My advice would be to return the rebel and get 20D... as well as 50/1.4

I know it's lots of money, but you're gonna have trouble getting good shots with 3 frames/sec as opposed to 5/sec and the buffer will clear much faster in 20D

If you can't afford to spend that much $$, get 50/1.8. 70 bucks and you'll love it.

imakefights · Dec 22, 2004

Well I guess the whole point is moot now. Everytime I push the shutter button I get an ERR 99 message. I had read about some durability issues with this camera. I sure expected it to last longer than a few hours though. Now I guess I will have to ship it back to the seller whom I just paid a premium for next day air shipping

Bobby

markc · Dec 22, 2004

There is a lot of discussion out there about ERR 99 messages. You might want to try a web search first. It might be something simple, like reformatting the CF card.

Also, you might want to consider the 85mm f1.8, unless you are going to be really close to the action. I don't know where you are going to be able to be in relation to the boxers.

Big Mike · Dec 22, 2004

From what I have read, the err 99 issue is somewhat common. It should disappear after turning the camera on/off, taking out the batteries or memory card, or taking of & reattaching the lens.

I'd be pretty choked if I just bought a camera and it did that but it may not be a durably issue. They are supposedly built fairly tough...just not as good as the more expensive pro & semi-pro bodies.

Bokeh · Dec 22, 2004

DocFrankenstein said:
He needs 1/500th for boxing... Anything slower gets you blurred hands.

Not necessarily; I've covered a number of them, it depends on thelighting situation. I've caught many "hands in the air" shots, like the one at the bottom of this post. That was caught at 1/250.

DocFrankenstein said:
My advice would be to return the rebel and get 20D... as well as 50/1.4

Already recommended the 50 1.4 to him, but I think the 20d part of your recommendation isn't necessary. I shot several events with my 300d and it did fine. The 20d gives you the bonus of AI Servo, and obviously a faster fps.

The white balance is off, but no blurr in either of those...