Just a Thought - Weddings Geeze .. Everyone can be a photographer

[musicaleCA]

Well said Gryphon, though my point wasn't necessarily that the gear makes the photographer. As I said, in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, amazing things can be achieved with seemingly inadequate equipment, when compared to top-of-the-line gear. Just that, if one is good enough one could at least do oneself the favour of building a stronger set-up; an entry level DSLR and kit lens can be bought for only a few hundred dollars more than a P&S, and will offer a whole lot more flexibility down the road. That's if one is doing a lot of weddings anyway.

Perhaps I am indeed generalizing and failing in my assessment due to confirmation bias, but I don't associate what I think of as wedding photography with P&S cameras.

 

[epp_b]

Consider plumbers, electricians, carpenters, masons...

All of these people are skilled laborers, and all of them will generally apprentice with someone who knows what they are doing before going out on their own to do. Why? Pretty simply because the things they work on (people's homes, for example) are important, and doing something wrong on someone's home could risk fire, electrocution, flood, total structural collapse, etc.

Not to mention, all of those trades require formal training and a license.

The lady behind us kept running up the aisle and snapping what appeared to be this (pink Casio Exilim, if you don't want to click) . I never saw a photographer and asked my wife if they didn't have one or if they just did a shoot before the ceremony. She asked if I noticed the lady behind us. I said, what, the lady with the Canon film SLR? Nope, the lady that kept running up in the aisle with the Casio P&S, that was the photographer.

I ... have ... no ... words ...

 

[Overread]

+1 to what gryphonslair99 said!

Perhaps another way to look at it...

Consider plumbers, electricians, carpenters, masons...

All of these people are skilled laborers, and all of them will generally apprentice with someone who knows what they are doing before going out on their own to do. Why? Pretty simply because the things they work on (people's homes, for example) are important, and doing something wrong on someone's home could risk fire, electrocution, flood, total structural collapse, etc.

Ever heard of cowboy builders?
Every line of work has their quality workers, the overpriced trade names, the average, the specailist, the cheapy and the cowboy!
Your average cowboy charges cheap, comes cheap and often leaves you with shoddy work that won't last 5 seconds past them walking out the door- which is all they need to reach their truck and drive off. Heck some will start work, leave your house/garden/drive like a tip and then clear right off (often taking deposits and material payments with them).

 

[manaheim]

^^^ are you saying that's a good thing?

 

[Henry Peach]

I hate to burst the ego bubble, but photography just isn't as difficult and it's no where near as potentially dangerous as surgery, dentistry, plumbing, electrical work, etc... Let's imagine the thought processes...

"I really like this portfolio from the $2K wedding photographer, but I'd rather spend the money on the honeymoon, so I guess we'll go with the $800 photographer." <-- this happens

"My regular doctor/dentist/plumber/electrician costs more than I want to spend. Fortunately I found a guy who will operate on me/give me a root canal/fix my home for a whole lot cheaper!" <-- this does not happen, at least in the modern parts of the world

I'm a full time wedding photographer. I enjoy the work, and I take it very seriously. I know it's a big responsibility to shoot someone's wedding, and it's how I'm feeding and clothing my kids. In my town last month a dentist put a teenager into a coma by screwing up the anesthesia. No matter how bad I could potentially screw up someone's wedding photos, and how mad or sad they would be, it's just not on that level.

Unless they are complete idiots people know the friend with the pink Casio will not provide professional quality photos. Everyone knows what a steak dinner costs; don't order the $8 steak dinner and then ***** about it.

 

[manaheim]

I hate to burst the ego bubble, but photography just isn't as difficult and it's no where near as potentially dangerous as surgery, dentistry, plumbing, electrical work, etc... Let's imagine the thought processes...

"I really like this portfolio from the $2K wedding photographer, but I'd rather spend the money on the honeymoon, so I guess we'll go with the $800 photographer." <-- this happens

"My regular doctor/dentist/plumber/electrician costs more than I want to spend. Fortunately I found a guy who will operate on me/give me a root canal/fix my home for a whole lot cheaper!" <-- this does not happen, at least in the modern parts of the world

I'm a full time wedding photographer. I enjoy the work, and I take it very seriously. I know it's a big responsibility to shoot someone's wedding, and it's how I'm feeding and clothing my kids. In my town last month a dentist put a teenager into a coma by screwing up the anesthesia. No matter how bad I could potentially screw up someone's wedding photos, and how mad or sad they would be, it's just not on that level.

Unless they are complete idiots people know the friend with the pink Casio will not provide professional quality photos. Everyone knows what a steak dinner costs; don't order the $8 steak dinner and then ***** about it.

You know, this kind of thing actually ticks me off just as much as the people freaking out and telling people that fire and brimstone will rain from the sky if they go into a wedding with no clue.

I didn't say it was as dangerous... I said there was a reason why people apprentice for skilled engagements, and people need to keep that in mind both when they hire people and when they decide to step into a job where a skilled laborer is common. Your taking this black vs. white position on this just needlessly polarizes a discussion that I was actually trying very hard to depolarize.

You get what you pay for. Look before you leap. These two very well-known adages apply to one or both sides of the photographer/customer relationship. Those that don't are going to get burned in the end. There's little more to it than that.

Ego bubble. Seriously. How obnoxious... not to mention an obviously thinly veiled representation of your own ego to make the statement to begin with.

ARGH. Now I'm all irritated.

 

[B Kennedy]

I vote to create a new sub-forum on here...beyond the basics, product photog, business district, and WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHY! I have to say that these threads never get old and I love reading them:thumbup: The debates are outstanding.

 

[epp_b]

I hate to burst the ego bubble, but photography just isn't as difficult and it's no where near as potentially dangerous as surgery, dentistry, plumbing, electrical work, etc... Let's imagine the thought processes...

No, not as dangerous, but "difficulty" is not really quantifiable. Some people can think and communicate visually more naturally than others. Some can't at all.

 

[wiredhernandez]

I can do a good bit of electrical ... plumbing ... have done minor "field" medical...

But for me .. I would do any of them for free for family and friends when needed ... with the understanding that I am not a professional .. the same applies to photography for me...

 

[JerryPH]

I hate to burst the ego bubble, but photography just isn't as difficult and it's no where near as potentially dangerous as surgery, dentistry, plumbing, electrical work, etc... Let's imagine the thought processes...

Henry, I hate to burst your bubble, but I took the time to look at your website and wedding pictures. Ego is thinking you are "good" when the reality is... "you ain't all dat" and your pictures prove it. I am not saying your wedding pictures are bad, they are actually nice, but average, standard, and yes, even a little boring. You have a little more work to do before you would attain the leve of what I would call a good wedding photographer.

I don't have ego in the sense that I am not a wedding photographer, nor am I even a professional. I do it strictly for the pleasure. I mentor with exceptional wedding photographers, I work for them for free and I learn. I am perfecting my craft.

I also know that a wedding photographer doesn't place people's lives in physical danger, and anyone that thinks that from my post has incredible selective reading skills. I said that I feel before a person should hang a "I am a wedding photographer" shingle on their wall, they should have the same passion, dedication and a good length of dedicated learning time time invested. Good wedding photographers do not happen in a year, or even two. At that stage, one is just past the basics of photography, much less ready to handle something as important as someone's most important day.

That is the difference between dedication and seriousness and doing it for the money. I wish less people did it for the money and more did it for the passion... the quality of the results would be worlds better overall for the people for whom it matters... the bride and groom.

 

[blash]

Henry, I hate to burst your bubble, but I took the time to look at your website and wedding pictures. Ego is thinking you are "good" when the reality is... "you ain't all dat" and your pictures prove it. I am not saying your wedding pictures are bad, they are actually nice, but average, standard, and yes, even a little boring. You have a little more work to do before you would attain the leve of what I would call a good wedding photographer.

I don't have ego in the sense that I am not a wedding photographer, nor am I even a professional. I do it strictly for the pleasure. I mentor with exceptional wedding photographers, I work for them for free and I learn. I am perfecting my craft.

I also know that a wedding photographer doesn't place people's lives in physical danger, and anyone that thinks that from my post has incredible selective reading skills. I said that I feel before a person should hang a "I am a wedding photographer" shingle on their wall, they should have the same passion, dedication and a good length of dedicated learning time time invested. Good wedding photographers do not happen in a year, or even two. At that stage, one is just past the basics of photography, much less ready to handle something as important as someone's most important day.

That is the difference between dedication and seriousness and doing it for the money. I wish less people did it for the money and more did it for the passion... the quality of the results would be worlds better overall for the people for whom it matters... the bride and groom.

Well put. I would like to note, however, that if the bride gets bad photos (or worse, no photos at all... with all the amateur photogs out there, I can't imagine at least 1 not having gone through losing the photos) then the emotional pain she feels could be worse than, say, if a tool fell on her head and she got a nasty bruise. Point being, don't bring in electricians etc. needing to be certified because then a very strong case can be made for wedding photographers needing to be certified.

I vote to create a new sub-forum on here...beyond the basics, product photog, business district, and WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHY! I have to say that these threads never get old and I love reading them:thumbup: The debates are outstanding.

Seconded! :er:

 

[JerryPH]

...then a very strong case can be made for wedding photographers needing to be certified.

Though I have nothing against certification, this is something that will never happen. Photography is more art than science and just as it is impossible to be a certified oil painter or any other kind of certified artist, one cannot certify a wedding photographer.

I would would be pro-certification for taking a photography competency test before handing out a wedding photographer license, though, that would certainly weed out a few of the REALLY bad ones! :lmao:

 

[OregonAmy]

The lady behind us kept running up the aisle and snapping what appeared to be this (pink Casio Exilim, if you don't want to click) . I never saw a photographer and asked my wife if they didn't have one or if they just did a shoot before the ceremony. She asked if I noticed the lady behind us. I said, what, the lady with the Canon film SLR? Nope, the lady that kept running up in the aisle with the Casio P&S, that was the photographer.

If you are going to do weddings as a photographer, at least choose a better P&S camera than an $89 Casio.....

Maybe the b&g didn't care that much about pictures and would have rather spent $2000 on their honeymoon than pictures. We didn't do pictures at my wedding, other than casual ones with people's cameras, because we would never frame/hang them and just wanted candid pictures of our day. Nothing fancy. Maybe the couple felt the same way.

 

[fwellers]

Henry, I hate to burst your bubble, but I took the time to look at your website and wedding pictures. Ego is thinking you are "good" when the reality is... "you ain't all dat" and your pictures prove it. I am not saying your wedding pictures are bad, they are actually nice, but average, standard, and yes, even a little boring. You have a little more work to do before you would attain the leve of what I would call a good wedding photographer.

Well that is kind of harsh especially since it's just a matter of opinion. I don't share your opinion at all. Your comment made me go check out his wedding site and it's pretty darn good !!!!!

I don't have ego.....

Let me just stop you right there so I can have a good laugh.

My question to you is, how are you going to perfect your craft given the following quote I read the other day:

"From atop a 200 foot pole how does one step forward ?"

 

[atbawrps]

I hate to burst the ego bubble, but photography just isn't as difficult and it's no where near as potentially dangerous as surgery, dentistry, plumbing, electrical work, etc... Let's imagine the thought processes...

Henry, I hate to burst your bubble, but I took the time to look at your website and wedding pictures. Ego is thinking you are "good" when the reality is... "you ain't all dat" and your pictures prove it. I am not saying your wedding pictures are bad, they are actually nice, but average, standard, and yes, even a little boring. You have a little more work to do before you would attain the leve of what I would call a good wedding photographer.

I don't have ego in the sense that I am not a wedding photographer, nor am I even a professional. I do it strictly for the pleasure. I mentor with exceptional wedding photographers, I work for them for free and I learn. I am perfecting my craft.

I also know that a wedding photographer doesn't place people's lives in physical danger, and anyone that thinks that from my post has incredible selective reading skills. I said that I feel before a person should hang a "I am a wedding photographer" shingle on their wall, they should have the same passion, dedication and a good length of dedicated learning time time invested. Good wedding photographers do not happen in a year, or even two. At that stage, one is just past the basics of photography, much less ready to handle something as important as someone's most important day.

That is the difference between dedication and seriousness and doing it for the money. I wish less people did it for the money and more did it for the passion... the quality of the results would be worlds better overall for the people for whom it matters... the bride and groom.

I love it when there's a "wedding photographer" that thinks he's all that and a bag of chips - then when you look at their work, it's like, "Uh... your work sucks,dude." Bwahahah! That's probably why he thinks it's not that difficult - cuz he's bad at it. Anyone can be bad at what they do.

I can be a bad hockey player, bad race car driver, bad lumberjack... hahah! That dude is just a bad photographer.