Leica Rangefinders

[SnappingShark]

Damn why are these so expensive?

I've recently thought about them a lot ... and then I saw their price tag.
Then I thought well OK ... and looked at the lenses. I saw their price tags too.

Why are these camera so expensive? (digital versions).
Especially the latest Leica Monochrome - black and white only camera - this is upwards of 7000 dollars.

What are good equivalents of Leica - for me to try the rangefinder experience - digital though mind, as I don't want to develop film.

Thanks!!

 

[fjrabon]

Fuji X100T is the closest thing you'll find to a digital Leica.

 

[Gary A.]

For the past decade I have left my fingerprints on every used Leica in Los Angeles. I'm not all that put off by the cost of the body ... but I know I will be tossed onto this slippery slope of buying all these terribly expensive lenses and that steep and slippery slope will ultimately end at the poor house.

There is the R-D1, a true digital rangefinder by Epson. But is is out of production old technology but uses M mounts (IRRC). It is a 6mp CCD sensor. They're going used for about a thousand.

I second fjrabon, the Fuji X100 series and the Fuji X-Pro1, while not true rangefinders, are the closest thing to the rangefinder experience you can buy new at a reasonable price. The X100 series has a fixed 23mm lens and the XP1 is an interchangeable lens camera. I've read rumors that the XP2 will be released very soon.

 

[fjrabon]

For the past decade I have left my fingerprints on every used Leica in Los Angeles. I'm not all that put off by the cost of the body ... but I know I will be tossed onto this slippery slope of buying all these terribly expensive lenses and that steep and slippery slope will ultimately end at the poor house.

There is the R-D1, a true digital rangefinder by Epson. But is is out of production old technology but uses M mounts (IRRC). It is a 6mp CCD sensor. They're going used for about a thousand.

I second fjrabon, the Fuji X100 series and the Fuji X-Pro1, while not true rangefinders, are the closest thing to the rangefinder experience you can buy new at a reasonable price. The X100 series has a fixed 23mm lens and the XP1 is an interchangeable lens camera. I've read rumors that the XP2 will be released very soon.

yeah, if there had been an XPro2 out already, I probably would have gotten that instead of the X100T. The XPro1 isn't bad if you don't need to shoot quick, but I found it a little slow for the way I shoot street.

 

[Gary A.]

In low light the XP1 AF and EVF goes all to hell real quick. The XP1's AF is dog slow ... but in low light it really starts to howl like a hound dog.

 

[gsgary]

Damn why are these so expensive?

I've recently thought about them a lot ... and then I saw their price tag.
Then I thought well OK ... and looked at the lenses. I saw their price tags too.

Why are these camera so expensive? (digital versions).
Especially the latest Leica Monochrome - black and white only camera - this is upwards of 7000 dollars.

What are good equivalents of Leica - for me to try the rangefinder experience - digital though mind, as I don't want to develop film.

Thanks!!

The only other digital rangefinder and it was the first is the Epson RD1, I use Leica film rangefinders and they are wonderful to use, as Gary said RD1's go for high prices because of the following they also produce wonderful B+W, its also like shooting a film camera you have to cock the shutter every shot, Nikon fanboys will like that it has the D70 sensor

 

[Derrel]

Leica has for a long time been a low-production, hand-assembled, extensively tested, tightly quality-controlled brand. You know those Nikkors and Canon L-glass lenses that arrive with the decentered element? You know that Sigma 35mm f/1.4 ART lens sent to a prominent web reviewer--with literally a screw loose inside of it and rough focusing ring action? That's not going to happen with a Leica lens. It's gonna be put on an optical bench and tested before it leaves the factory: the price of the gear means that hand assembly, and careful checking and inspection of the products as they are made, is able to be included, MUST be included. Leica is not Canon, banging out 100,000 T-series Rebels a month out of plastic mould injections and churning out in 20 minutes a cheap 18-55 plastic f/3.5~5.6 $99 retail kit zoom to go "with it".

Leica cameras and lenses come from another era, in which "lifetime" build quality was the operating principle, along with ruggedness, reliability, and ultra-high mechanical and optical precision, in a sort of no-hold-barred-on-cost-grounds. If a certain type of expensive, rare-earth glass element or costly, hard-to-perform aspherical lens grind is needed, then it shall be so. This is the difference between producing a 50mm aspherical normal lens that is built rock-solid, and which will easily last 30 to 50 years of actual usage, but retail for the price of a decent, if unspectacular, used car. A few years ago, there was a dPreview or Fred Miranda post of a fellow who accidentally dropped a Leica lens about 30 feet, from a building under construction to the concrete pavement below. He descended, sick to his stomach over what his lens would be like. Still functioned fine.

If you want to find out more about rangefinder cameras, the best site might be CameraQuest.com and their articles, which present the "overview" of what/why of rfdr cams. They are best with the 50mm lens length,mostly, and not that good with longer lenses, nor with shorter lenses. The Leica cameras and lenses are fairly small. The real "secret" I think is the predictability of using a single prime lens of very high optical performance, in a small, inconspicuous camera.

 

[gsgary]

Leica has for a long time been a low-production, hand-assembled, extensively tested, tightly quality-controlled brand. You know those Nikkors and Canon L-glass lenses that arrive with the decentered element? You know that Sigma 35mm f/1.4 ART lens sent to a prominent web reviewer--with literally a screw loose inside of it and rough focusing ring action? That's not going to happen with a Leica lens. It's gonna be put on an optical bench and tested before it leaves the factory: the price of the gear means that hand assembly, and careful checking and inspection of the products as they are made, is able to be included, MUST be included. Leica is not Canon, banging out 100,000 T-series Rebels a month out of plastic mould injections and churning out in 20 minutes a cheap 18-55 plastic f/3.5~5.6 $99 retail kit zoom to go "with it".

Leica cameras and lenses come from another era, in which "lifetime" build quality was the operating principle, along with ruggedness, reliability, and ultra-high mechanical and optical precision, in a sort of no-hold-barred-on-cost-grounds. If a certain type of expensive, rare-earth glass element or costly, hard-to-perform aspherical lens grind is needed, then it shall be so. This is the difference between producing a 50mm aspherical normal lens that is built rock-solid, and which will easily last 30 to 50 years of actual usage, but retail for the price of a decent, if unspectacular, used car. A few years ago, there was a dPreview or Fred Miranda post of a fellow who accidentally dropped a Leica lens about 30 feet, from a building under construction to the concrete pavement below. He descended, sick to his stomach over what his lens would be like. Still functioned fine.

If you want to find out more about rangefinder cameras, the best site might be CameraQuest.com and their articles, which present the "overview" of what/why of rfdr cams. They are best with the 50mm lens length,mostly, and not that good with longer lenses, nor with shorter lenses. The Leica cameras and lenses are fairly small. The real "secret" I think is the predictability of using a single prime lens of very high optical performance, in a small, inconspicuous camera.

I thought you were going to bash Leica, but they work fine with wide lenses

 

[SnappingShark]

Well, I am now swaying towards the Leica ME - same as the M9 but without a USB port and framing guidelines.

But then, my choice then comes down to 35mm vs 50mm - because I could only afford one lens.
Then it comes down to which one?!
Then it comes to being quiet, and shooting.

First, I will have to juggle some finances.

 

[gsgary]

I use 35mm more than 50mm but both are great focal lengths for the ME then you will have to get over to the Leica forum

 

[Derrel]

I thought you were going to bash Leica, but they work fine with wide lenses

Gary, if I could afford it, I would have a fabulous Leica outfit, with both film and digital, a Tri-Elmar, and 21.28.35.50.75 and 90mm lenses, accessory finders, the whole nine yards.

 

[gsgary]

This is a good 50mm lens gets great reviews ( Voigtlander 50asph F1.5 VM) and about half the price of some Leica 50's but as good

If you go on the Leica forum you will find people that shoot 50mm but they will have at least 5 50mm lenses because every type of Leica 50mm will give you a different look something you don't get with Canon and Nikon

 

[gsgary]

I thought you were going to bash Leica, but they work fine with wide lenses

Gary, if I could afford it, I would have a fabulous Leica outfit, with both film and digital, a Tri-Elmar, and 21.28.35.50.75 and 90mm lenses, accessory finders, the whole nine yards.

I thought you didn't have taste but i was wrong

 

[SnappingShark]

I'm excited and terrified of the Leica forum - both at the same time.
I've looked at my images and came to the conclusion that a 35 would be the better length for me to purchase first off the bat.

I'll be spending some considerable time on dxomark I think to find a semi inexpensive but sharp lens!

I appreciate every reply!!

 

[Derrel]

BrightByNature,
If you want to spring for a few rolls of film, this weekend we can get together and we can do the "poor man's leica experiment"...I have a Bessa rangefinder and 35mm f/1.7, 50mm f/1.5, and 75mm f/2.5 lenses...the lenses are actually very,very good optics. The 35 shoots RIGHT at the sun with fabulous flare control! The 75mm is nice too. PM me if you want to head out and shoot some pics this weekend...