Lens Shopping is Frustrating!!!

manaheim · Jun 4, 2009

amandagphoto said:
manaheim said:

ooo... I'd have to award ANDS! the advantage after that last post.

Click to expand...

What advantage? I don't see that. A bad attitude does not a good point make. He is actually not accurately arguing the point because he does not appear to understand my meaning. He is arguing against something that was not said by anyone here which is rather amusing.

I wasn't so much applauding his attitude (not that I necessarily have an issue with it...) as his kinda spiking the argument.

The simple fact is, whether you meant to or not, you did strongly imply that someone who doesn't have lots of equipment is an amateur, and further implied that they're basically not up to the task.

You've also jumped headlong into the trap of trying to define what a "professional" is or isn't, which around here is tantamount to wearing a meat suit to a rabid starving dog convention. This one has been debated ad-nauseum here and elsewhere by people far brighter and more capable than you and I. I don't know what the ultimate answer is, but I can tell you that the people who I have the most respect for in business and photography are the ones who I least often hear uttering the word.

I'm not going to be foolish enough to get dragged into your little debate here, but I will go as far as to say that I think you're in up to your neck in this and sinking fast. I think much of it has just been a matter or word choices and that your core ideas are actually fine, it's just that you have kinda carved off a subsection of people and told them they are not fit to serve... whether you are right or wrong, that isn't going to win you any friends.

I suppose winning friends isn't necessarily what it's all about, but this is a community and as such people do try to make a point to play nice. I guess all I'm saying is that you basically stepped into the community and knocked over several sacred cows on day 1 and you may want to step back and rethink a bit before you fire up the chanisaw and cut yourself some nice juicy steaks.

:er:

Clawed · Jun 4, 2009

This is ridiculous, and at this point, how are any of you adding value to the OPs inquiry (this goes for myself here too... now)? This is just nonsensical rambling and I have to disagree with you Manaheim, you point the finger at Amanda for stirring this up, but it was ANDS! who started in this conversation belligerently. However, I DO agree with the point ANDS! is making after going back though and reading, but not his approach...

To Missdaisy: good luck with your lens shopping (if you have not already purchased the 17-55mm f/2.8). You have two conflicting ideas here about what qualifies as "requirements" to shoot a wedding. Obviously, there is no right answer. Somewhere in between "shooting weddings will require more than one good lens. It will also require more than one body" and showing up with a point and shoot, lies the answer. Thankfully, you can dismiss all of what has been said here, and make your own decision, and it really comes down to your own comfort level. You already knew that though

Have fun and learn as much as you possibly can before the big day!

manaheim · Jun 4, 2009

Clawed said:
...and I have to disagree with you Manaheim, you point the finger at Amanda for stirring this up, but it was ANDS! who started in this conversation belligerently. However, I DO agree with the point ANDS! is making after going back though and reading, but not his approach...

:lmao:

K, sure, dude. Whatever. :thumbup:

amandagphoto · Jun 4, 2009

manaheim said:
amandagphoto said:

manaheim said:

The simple fact is, whether you meant to or not, you did strongly imply that someone who doesn't have lots of equipment is an amateur, and further implied that they're basically not up to the task.

I never said lots of equipment. ANDS keeps quoting a phrase that was not mine "the lack of multiple copies of very expensive tools renders a persons art and talent as amateur." NOT my quote. (notice that whenever he quotes that, it is his own typing and not a wrapped quote from the site software) I never said this so I am unsure why he keeps attributing this statement to me. I merely said we should have a backup. I myself only have one camera body backup and three lenses (each lens is different-I do not have two of each lenses and again think he is misunderstanding my statement that we need to have a backup) All of his arguments directed at me are based on the above statement which was never said by me, so I'm sure you could see where the mistake lies. He needs to figure out who said exactly that, and direct his comments appropriately before he lashes out.

You've also jumped headlong into the trap of trying to define what a "professional" is or isn't, which around here is tantamount to wearing a meat suit to a rabid starving dog convention. This one has been debated ad-nauseum here and elsewhere by people far brighter and more capable than you and I. I don't know what the ultimate answer is, but I can tell you that the people who I have the most respect for in business and photography are the ones who I least often hear uttering the word.

I don't think you are qualified to say whether or not I am bright or capable, but you are entitled to your opinion. If people were trying to make nice, they wouldn't attack a visitor for trying to engage in conversation.

I'm not going to be foolish enough to get dragged into your little debate here, but I will go as far as to say that I think you're in up to your neck in this and sinking fast. I think much of it has just been a matter or word choices and that your core ideas are actually fine, it's just that you have kinda carved off a subsection of people and told them they are not fit to serve... whether you are right or wrong, that isn't going to win you any friends.

I wouldn't say I'm sinking just because a few people disagree with me. Although I will say I never intended for this to be a debate. I was just trying to give the OP some help! There were other posters here that were in complete agreement with me but for some reason my advice to Miss Daisy was not well taken (perhaps because I'm unrecognized in this particular community or they did not read what I actually posted and just looked at what ANDS said I posted?). I don't really know what you mean by me treating people like they are not fit to serve. I simply stated my opinions based on experience (after all, forums are where people post their opinions and ideas for the benefit of others to learn from. If people can't handle the advice, don't read it! I and some of the other photogs here were just trying to give helpful advice and information, but there seems to be an air of defensiveness when no offense was intended). Go back and read MY actual statements (not what ANDS keeps saying I said, and then tell me where what I said was offensive.) I would be glad to apologize for any misconceptions if it was something that I actually said in proper context.

Really, my ideas are nothing radical in the professional community to warrant such a reaction. (That idea stated for the record so there are no further misunderstandings is that a responsible professional should carry backup equipment for the sake of the bride and the protection of their business. No mention here of how many or how expensive. Let's not split hairs here and make it harder than it needs to be.) Anyone who has been in business for a few years or more feel free to back me up on this reasonable statement.

I suppose winning friends isn't necessarily what it's all about, but this is a community and as such people do try to make a point to play nice. I guess all I'm saying is that you basically stepped into the community and knocked over several sacred cows on day 1 and you may want to step back and rethink a bit before you fire up the chanisaw and cut yourself some nice juicy steaks.

I am not here to make friends (that's what "real life" is for) Just the same, I don't believe I said anything rude and backed up all of my perceptions with logical explanations to point out I am not purposefully being contrary. I realize there is insecurity among some regarding their station and as such have taken my statements rather personally.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

manaheim · Jun 4, 2009

I agree with ANDS!. I think you're being obtuse... perhaps deliberately so. For example "a lot of equipment" was pretty clearly my characterization of what you said... not a direct quote. Your then responding and saying [para] "I didn't say that!" is just picking nits.

I did, in fact, re-read much of what you said. A couple times, in fact.

What's more is I've never disagreed with your points, but rather pointed out where you may have stepped in a couple of landmines. I actually did this in an effort to try to be a bit helpful.

I'm sure many will benefit from your professional perspective in this and other things. I, however, am moving on from this particular convo.

Welcome to the forum.

ANDS! · Jun 5, 2009

First, I know kung-fu. Second:

I realize there is insecurity among some regarding their station

Haha. Holy freak meister massa!

And just to be clear so there is no confusion, I never said this quote:

ANDS! OMG! ANDS! NOT AMANDA! said:
. . .the lack of multiple copies of very expensive tools renders a persons art and talent as amateur.

. . .was anybodies but mine. In fact - that's not even the full quote.

Now this:

Hey Amanda Look Here! This Is What You Said! said:
Being a professional wedding photographer myself, I understand the difference between an amateur photographer who shows up with one camera and a pro who has backup equipment in case something happens to the first.

. . .is your statement. Now this:

More Amanda! said:
that a responsible professional should carry backup equipment for the sake of the bride and the protection of their business.

Is less inflammatory and a more measured response than the gal of the original quote that started this shakedown.

Masterosouffle · Jun 5, 2009

I actually felt the need to join this forum to comment here, I assume you are all aware this forum is publically viewable, and that anyone can just join as I did?

I only ask this as the petty bickering and childish crap that is being written here by people who are laughably trying to call themselves professional is gobsmacking. The fact you are trying to justify the fact you can shoot wedding with no backup equipment is only indicative of the sheer ignorance and misplaced arrogance that seems to be rife in this thread.

Can someone with just a point and shoot calll themselves a professional? Worryingly so
Would a professional photographer attend a wedding with no back up gear? I sincerely hope not
Do you guys need to get your house in order and cut the crap? Yes

Amanda, I strongly suggets you rise above this and return to the other forum

Montana · Jun 5, 2009

I think there are just too many professional photographers in this world..........

And for what its worth, photography is not really an expensive business. A good carpenter has just as much money in his tools, an electronics tech has just as much money invested in tools, etc, etc, etc. This thread is funny though.....:er:

inTempus · Jun 5, 2009

Masterosouffle said:
I actually felt the need to join this forum to comment here, I assume you are all aware this forum is publically viewable, and that anyone can just join as I did?

It is?

OH CRAP! Mod's, please alert the Admin that this forum is publicly viewable and the worst part, apparently just anyone off the net can join and post!!!

RED ALERT FOLKS!

ANDS! · Jun 5, 2009

The fact you are trying to justify the fact you can shoot wedding with no backup. . .

I wonder what happens if someone arrives with a camera and a couple lenses - does their head explode as they step into the church? Maybe some divine-retribution? The G-Man doesn't like Single-Bodied-Shooters!