Local camera store vs online store

[Steve5D]

In my case, had the store met me half way price wise, they would have sold a tripod and made some profit...

How do you know he'd make profit? Do you know what his costs are? Most retailers I'm aware of guard such numbers like nuclear launch codes, and would never dream of showing them to a customer, simply because it's none of your business.

But, since you brought up "profit", what do you think is an acceptable profit for the retailer?

I've been in retail for years. If it's one thing I've learned in all those years is that the best deal is a fair deal, and a deal is only fair if it's fair to both parties. Far more often than not (especially now in the age of the internet) is that consumers care only about whet they're spending. They don't care about the health of the local guy and, if he can't match an internet price, screw 'em. To those people, a deal is "fair" if they get the absolute lowest possible price.

When they want service, though, who do they go to? Do they go to www.bigboxcamerasonline.com? Nope, they go to the local guy, and then they get all butt-hurt when the local guy is less than enthusiastic about helping them out...

 

[Steve5D]

But, in today's competitive market, I don't think a 7 day return policy is reasonable nor is a 15% restocking fee.

Seriously?

I usually know before I walk into a store what I'll be walking out with. When it comes to camera gear, I never impulse buy. Consequently, I have never returned anything I've purchased.

I cannot imagine, though, needing more than seven days to determine whether or not I need to return something. If someone can't figure that out inside of a week, how much time is reasonable?

 

[Steve5D]

We don't have any local camera stores any more I usually buy my gear from Amazon or B&H Photo.

If there are no more local camera stores, then the issue isn't pertinent for you. You have no option.

But ask yourself: Why do you think they went out of business?

 

[tecboy]

My local camera store has stayed in business since 1929. How many years? You do the math.

 

[DSRay]

Side stepping the doggy mess, I will tell you that here in Naples, FL, here are no local shops, the last one going out of business a couple of years ago. This has been a trend in this area since 2005. I can also tell you that they typically didn't employ people with any 'real' photography knowledge. The best in the area went to a portrait studio only stance 5 years ago.

The one exception is still going in Fort Myers (30 miles) but isn't worth visiting, it's mostly a printing and frame operation except they can't print. I can do a much better job with my Epson R1900.

So I have no choice but to buy online and I pretty much buy equipment (used) from BH and paper/ink from Home page out of Miami. If you haven't tried them, check them out. If I get an order in before 2PM I get it the next day.

My general online buying theory is if the cost & shipping is less than the cost & tax, I'll buy it online.

 

[Steve5D]

You say all they know how to do is upsell, but they can't upsell if they don't know about the gear.

They know that lens "A" cost more than lens "B", and that they would rather sell you lens "A". They can probably recite the marketing material too, but that necessarily mean they understand any of it.

You strike me as the typical consumer (which is neither good nor bad). You think that "upsell" means selling you something that has a higher price.

That's just not the case, but you obviously don't know that. I can bet you that your local commissioned salesman does, though, and he thrives on it.

If I "upsell" you something, I'm going to sell you something that makes more profit because, as a commissioned salesman, I'll be paid more.

F'rinstance: I sell guitars for a living. If I sell you a $10,000 Collings guitar, I'm going to make about $4,000 in profit. But, if I sell you a $9,000 Gibson guitar, I'm actually going to make more, simply because the cost to get the Gibson into my store, percentage-wise, is a lot less than the cost of the Collings. Basically, when I sell the $10,000 Collings, I'll make $4,000 in profit, but when I sell the Gibson, which costs you $1,000 less, I'll make around $5,400. In profit. A commissioned salesman gets paid a percentage of the profit, not the gross sale. If my percentage is 20%, selling you the more expensive guitar will put $800 in my pocket. Selling you the guitar that's priced $1,000 less will put $1,080 in my pocket.

Probably the biggest mistake consumers make is believing that the pricier item is an "upsell"...

The employees at these kind of places usually are concerned with one of two things - their commission, or getting you out of there as fast as possible so they can get back to texting their girlfrIend.

Man, you really have no real understanding of retail.

First, I would be willing to bet that how they act towards you is, in no small part, due to your rather obvious sunny disposition. Nothing anywhere says that a salesman needs to keep smiling when a boorish customer comes in, and you seriously strike me as being that type customer.

Second, commission sales is affected greatly by the number of customers a salesman can help in a given period of time. If you monopolize his time for an hour or two, you've just taken him away from, potentially, other customers who were actually there to spend money. I don't know of a single commissioned salesman who appreciates having his time wasted. Given your very obvious disdain for them, wasting their time seems to be all you're intent on doing. Ergo, you probably shouldn't get your panties in a bunch when they don't bend over backwards to help you...

Customer service is nothing more than a section of the store.

I would bet my last nickel that there are customers there who would absolutely disagree with you. You're just not able to express any other opinion about them.

Those salesman could cure the common cold, and you'd ***** about them using too many tissues in the process...

 

[Josh66]

I don't really expect local stores to price match online stores. I do expect them to actually care about what they are doing though. The big chain stores usually don't. Well, the manager probably does, but the hourly people usually could care less if you buy something or not - unless they're getting a commission on it. Try getting someone to help you at Best Buy, for example.

Arlington Camera is pretty good, but that's a 90 mile drive, one way. I don't consider that 'local'.

What I care about the most in a brick & mortar store is customer service. Sadly, that's a rare thing these days. I do my grocery shopping at the "expensive" store - everyone says that this store is too expensive, but I don't even really notice if they're higher or lower than the other grocery stores or Wal-Mart. The store is always spotless, the staff is friendly and goes way over and above (they even load everything into your car for you--every single time, that's just their policy - and they won't accept a tip for it either), and they have the best deli/seafood/butcher selection in town. The one place that they're lacking in is the bakery, IMO. And the carts, lol, I've never had one that didn't feel like it was brand new. That's sort of a pet peeve, haha. On the other hand, I have never once gotten a cart at Wal-Mart that didn't have either a messed up wheel or big dents in the side of it.

If I had a 'mom & pop' camera shop here, I probably would shop there. But I don't, I'm stuck with the national chain stores. If they actually provided some service other than allowing me to spend my money there, I would overlook the higher prices.

My general online buying theory is if the cost & shipping is less than the cost & tax, I'll buy it online.

You'll likely soon be paying sales tax on (nearly) all online purchases. It's been proposed that businesses with fewer than 50 employees and making less than $10M a year should be exempt though.

 

[Kolia]

In my case, had the store met me half way price wise, they would have sold a tripod and made some profit...

How do you know he'd make profit? Do you know what his costs are? Most retailers I'm aware of guard such numbers like nuclear launch codes, and would never dream of showing them to a customer, simply because it's none of your business.

But, since you brought up "profit", what do you think is an acceptable profit for the retailer?

I've been in retail for years. If it's one thing I've learned in all those years is that the best deal is a fair deal, and a deal is only fair if it's fair to both parties. Far more often than not (especially now in the age of the internet) is that consumers care only about whet they're spending. They don't care about the health of the local guy and, if he can't match an internet price, screw 'em. To those people, a deal is "fair" if they get the absolute lowest possible price.

When they want service, though, who do they go to? Do they go to www.bigboxcamerasonline.com? Nope, they go to the local guy, and then they get all butt-hurt when the local guy is less than enthusiastic about helping them out...

You're just trolling... Did you read the numbers I put ? These are real numbers...

If a store like B&H (arguably a brick and mortar store) can sell a tripod for 250$, it's safe to assume they are making money on that sale. It wasn't even a special, it was the irregular price.

If a different store needs to sell the same tripod double the price, there is a problem. That store is gouging its customer and do not deserve my business. Let them go under.

 

[Josh66]

You think that "upsell" means selling you something that has a higher price.

That's just not the case, but you obviously don't know that. I can bet you that your local commissioned salesman does, though, and he thrives on it.

If I "upsell" you something, I'm going to sell you something that makes more profit because, as a commissioned salesman, I'll be paid more.

Substitute "price" with "value" (value to you).

I know how it works... It's the same with recruiters, and I've dealt a lot of them. They'll make it sound like they're on your side, but really they're just trying to funnel as many people as they can to the company that pays them the most. That doesn't really bother me - I know that's what is going on, and I expect it. What bothers me is that they try to pretend to be your friend at the same time.

Second, commission sales is affected greatly by the number of customers a salesman can help in a given period of time. If you monopolize his time for an hour or two, you've just taken him away from, potentially, other customers who were actually there to spend money. I don't know of a single commissioned salesman who appreciates having his time wasted. Given your very obvious disdain for them, wasting their time seems to be all you're intent on doing. Ergo, you probably shouldn't get your panties in a bunch when they don't bend over backwards to help you...

LOL. I am hardly trying to waste anyone's time. I don't like my time being wasted though. When I walk into a store, there's usually a reason I went there - I already have a pretty good idea of what I want. Just as an example, I don't want to tell the guy that I'm looking for a 200mm prime, and then have him say 'well let me show you this 70-200 f/2.8 IS'... It's like when you go to the car lot, tell them what you want, and they show you everything but that.


edit
Say you walk into a car dealership and when they approach you, you tell them that you don't care what it is as long as it only has 2 doors and 5 speeds. What do you think the odds would be that the first car they show you will either be a sedan or an automatic?

 

[Steve5D]

In my case, had the store met me half way price wise, they would have sold a tripod and made some profit...

How do you know he'd make profit? Do you know what his costs are? Most retailers I'm aware of guard such numbers like nuclear launch codes, and would never dream of showing them to a customer, simply because it's none of your business.

But, since you brought up "profit", what do you think is an acceptable profit for the retailer?

I've been in retail for years. If it's one thing I've learned in all those years is that the best deal is a fair deal, and a deal is only fair if it's fair to both parties. Far more often than not (especially now in the age of the internet) is that consumers care only about whet they're spending. They don't care about the health of the local guy and, if he can't match an internet price, screw 'em. To those people, a deal is "fair" if they get the absolute lowest possible price.

When they want service, though, who do they go to? Do they go to www.bigboxcamerasonline.com? Nope, they go to the local guy, and then they get all butt-hurt when the local guy is less than enthusiastic about helping them out...

You're just trolling... Did you read the numbers I put ? These are real numbers...

If a store like B&H (arguably a brick and mortar store) can sell a tripod for 250$, it's safe to assume they are making money on that sale. It wasn't even a special, it was the irregular price.

If a different store needs to sell the same tripod double the price, there is a problem. That store is gouging its customer and do not deserve my business. Let them go under.

Many manufacturers offer volume discounts to retailers, or special financing terms on large orders. The local guys can rarely do those, while outfits like B&H don't even blink. B&H can sell something cheaper because they're buying it cheaper (in many instances). It's not a question of the local guy gouging anyone but, rather, B&H whoring gear out for a few points above their cost.

But, since you don't know any of that, just start calling people names. That'll make your point so much more valid...

 

[Steve5D]

Substitute "price" with "value" (value to you).

Price and value are two entirely different things...

I know how it works... It's the same with recruiters, and I've dealt a lot of them. They'll make it sound like they're on your side, but really they're just trying to funnel as many people as they can to the company that pays them the most. That doesn't really bother me - I know that's what is going on, and I expect it. What bothers me is that they try to pretend to be your friend at the same time.

LOL. I am hardly trying to waste anyone's time. I don't like my time being wasted though. When I walk into a store, there's usually a reason I went there - I already have a pretty good idea of what I want. Just as an example, I don't want to tell the guy that I'm looking for a 200mm prime, and then have him say 'well let me show you this 70-200 f/2.8 IS'... It's like when you go to the car lot, tell them what you want, and they show you everything but that.

You've pretty much eviscerated your local big box store salesmen, and have pretty much acknowledged that you won't spend money there. Assuming you're a reasonably intelligent guy, why on earth would you waste time going there? Why would you go into a store where you don't like the salesmen, and where you have no intention of spending money?

 

[Josh66]

Substitute "price" with "value" (value to you).

Price and value are two entirely different things...

Exactly my point.

You've pretty much eviscerated your local big box store salesmen, and have pretty much acknowledged that you won't spend money there. Assuming you're a reasonably intelligent guy, why on earth would you waste time going there? Why would you go into a store where you don't like the salesmen, and where you have no intention of spending money?

True. I hate them. I don't deny it.

I try to avoid those establishments, but that is not always practical.

I think you misread my posts. If I enter a store, I have every intention of spending money there. Sometimes they make the experience unpleasant though.

I have no doubt that your guitar shop is nothing at all like the stores I'm complaining about. I hope you'll reconsider showing me the door, lol.

edit
I would much rather shop at a store owned by a member of my community, who actually has passion for what they are doing. Such stores do not exist where I live. ...Well, there are a few, I guess - smoke shops and stuff like that. Not anywhere that I would frequent regularly. Pizza joints that are hit or miss. Maybe a restaurant that specializes in catfish (catfish tastes like sand to me). The bowling alley... That's about it for locally owned businesses.

So, yeah - the big box store salesman? Screw that. I'll shop there when it's the only option, but I'd much rather support someone like you. Someone who obviously has passion for what they do.

 

[tecboy]

Chill guys! This topic is not up for debate. Just opinions.

 

[Kolia]

How do you know he'd make profit? Do you know what his costs are? Most retailers I'm aware of guard such numbers like nuclear launch codes, and would never dream of showing them to a customer, simply because it's none of your business.

But, since you brought up "profit", what do you think is an acceptable profit for the retailer?

I've been in retail for years. If it's one thing I've learned in all those years is that the best deal is a fair deal, and a deal is only fair if it's fair to both parties. Far more often than not (especially now in the age of the internet) is that consumers care only about whet they're spending. They don't care about the health of the local guy and, if he can't match an internet price, screw 'em. To those people, a deal is "fair" if they get the absolute lowest possible price.

When they want service, though, who do they go to? Do they go to www.bigboxcamerasonline.com? Nope, they go to the local guy, and then they get all butt-hurt when the local guy is less than enthusiastic about helping them out...

You're just trolling... Did you read the numbers I put ? These are real numbers...

If a store like B&H (arguably a brick and mortar store) can sell a tripod for 250$, it's safe to assume they are making money on that sale. It wasn't even a special, it was the irregular price.

If a different store needs to sell the same tripod double the price, there is a problem. That store is gouging its customer and do not deserve my business. Let them go under.

Many manufacturers offer volume discounts to retailers, or special financing terms on large orders. The local guys can rarely do those, while outfits like B&H don't even blink. B&H can sell something cheaper because they're buying it cheaper (in many instances). It's not a question of the local guy gouging anyone but, rather, B&H whoring gear out for a few points above their cost.

But, since you don't know any of that, just start calling people names. That'll make your point so much more valid...

Steve, you are basically saying that a small store will lose money unless he sells at full msrp...


Come on...

 

[Steve5D]

Chill guys! This topic is not up for debate. Just opinions.

And debate is fueled by what?

That's right, opinions.

Thanks for playing...