Looking for a first DSLR

[dcbear78]

"Between the 3 you mentioned the Pentax gets you a sealed body and sensor shift image stabilization ... "


Did I mention the industry is full of buzzwords you should avoid?

(No offense intended.)

When did weather sealing and image stabilisation become purely "buzz words?" They are in fact premium features.

 

[Solarflare]

My choice for this would be:

- Canon 100D (Rebel SL1 in USA, Kiss X7 in Japan, ~400$) - feel free to get more expensive Canon cameras (700D, 750D, 760D, 70D), but this is right now the smallest DSLR ever made and offers just as good IQ as any other APS-C Canon. I choose Canon over Nikon and Pentax because its the classic pick for landscape photography, known for great colors with landscapes, and they have the very affordable but optically great EF-S 10-18mm f4.5-5.6 IS STM offered.
- Canon EF-S 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 IS STM (get as kit with the camera) - Feel free to get something brighter, like the Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 VC, instead, but theres nothing wrong with the newest iteration of the Canon APS-C kitlens (though some sources in the internet claim it would only have 6 instead of 7 aperture blades)
- Canon EF 70-300mm f4-5.6 IS USM - Wildlife often needs tons of range, 300mm on APS-C is in no way overkill. Even number of aperture blades (8) though, so no great sunstars from this one.
- Tripod (for landscape, product shots, and sunstars on cars)
- Circular Polarization filter (landscape mostly)
- 2 Stop soft edge graduated neutral-density [ND] filter for landscape (bright sky vs dark land)
- Possibly also variable ND filter (video, time exposure for landscape) and/or plain ND filter(s) (3 stops and 10 stops would be great choices)
- Stepup rings - get all filters for the largest filter thread of your lenses, and use stepup rings so you only need one set of filters
- Canon EF-S 10-18mm f4.5-5.6 IS STM - if you want more wide angle, specifically for landscape.
- Tamron 90mm f2.8 VC macro - for product shots, if the other lenses dont offer enough magnification. Theres all kinds of alternatives, this lens is simply popular since its cheap and people like its Bokeh for portrait shots.

Used or refurbished is OK.

 

[charchri4]

Great idea on the step up rings to only need one set of filters. I had not heard of doing that before. Don't most folks keep a UV on all lenses just for protection?

For what it's worth I had my search down to a Nikon D7100 and a Pentax K-3 (both low shutter count used) and pulled the trigger on the K-3 last night.

 

[Designer]

But you should know I have never even held a DSLR and am just in the research stage myself so what I think means very little...

Somebody usually hits this point by suggesting that you go visit a store that has one or more of those models on display so you can pick it up, fiddle with the controls a bit, and snap a few photos. See which one feels best in your hand. Try the menus, look through the viewfinder, turn things off and on, get a feel for the thing. You should be able to tell which one feels right in your hands.

 

[Designer]

Don't most folks keep a UV on all lenses just for protection?.

No. I don't. I use the lens cap. Also, retailers like to sell those UV filters, so they tell newbs to keep one on to protect the front element, but they forget to tell the newbs that the cheap UV filter will downgrade their images.

 

[dcbear78]

Great idea on the step up rings to only need one set of filters. I had not heard of doing that before. Don't most folks keep a UV on all lenses just for protection?

For what it's worth I had my search down to a Nikon D7100 and a Pentax K-3 (both low shutter count used) and pulled the trigger on the K-3 last night.

Great choice. What lenses?

 

[charchri4]

LOL I'm kind of used to doing life on the web. I live in an area so rural there is not a stop light or 4 lane road in the entire county I live in. It's at least a 90 mile drive to a camera shop and double that if I want options. So I depend on you guys to show me the ropes!

For the K-3 I went with a PENTAX DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AL WR and Pentax HD DA 55-300mm f/4-5.8 ED WR lens both new. Looking forward to some great fall color shots!

 

[JacaRanda]

Easy to see why it can be difficult or at least confusing for someone new to all this.

 

[soufiej]

There are buzz words and genuinely useful features

No doubt, that's true.

And, to be clear, I made no attempt in my post to discriminate against or for such terms.

I was only pointing out the real world fact the mass market camera industry is no different than the mass market electronics industry as a whole.

Or the mass market breakfast cereal industry.

Or the mass market laundry detergent industry.

They are all filled with "buzzwords" which are intended to catch a busy consumer's attention when the consumer is confused by the sheer number of "buzzwords" and models floating around the mass market pool.

And, like it or not, the mass market pool is the pool most of us must swim in due to financial resources.

The question then is, how do you avoid being struck and possibly taken down by all the flotsam and recycled junk occupying so much of the surface water of the crowded pool we all are in? Where do you go to draw some oxygen?



You ignore "buzzwords" at your own peril IMO.

The market is awash in them as must be the case when new models are introduced at least once per year.

Each new model must be superior to the old model or else there's no reason to buy new, right?

And buying is the most often cited reason for looking.

Oh, there's that small % who want their new gear high each month, but they - those folks who constantly suffer from GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) - are really a very small minority of the buying public and they are not dedicated to much other than buzzing around in circles citing new "buzzwords".

Everyone - every manufacturer, every retailer, and every reviewer - is competing for a very small slice of the pie which is growing distinctly smaller in overall size as the market shifts to other interests. The market for DSLR's is seeing the floor drop out from beneath its feet.

Manufacturers are in a bit of a panic at the moment as to how to generate "buzz" over their new (old actually) product.

To compete, one traditional method is to create ... "buzzwords".




This has been the (Japanese) manufacturing concept for the last fifty years.

The reviewing press likes this technique since it gives them another artificial judgement to make. Often times, the manufacturers follow the lead of the magazines by responding to the "buzzwords" created by the press. They tend to feed along with one another like hyenas and vultures sharing parts of a rotting carcass.

When reading a review, you must remember one very vital fact, the reviewing industry is also struggling for its life.

No one will return to a reviewer who says something along the lines of, "In the end, I found the Yakamakai SD110-II to be an enjoyable product. I did not, however, find a single thing about the device which proved to be one bit better than any other component I've reviewed in the last five years. Buy it if you like it, it doesn't really matter."

So the reader stresses over specs and "buzzwords" hoping to find the review/reviewer which affirms their (largely already pre-conceived) opinions.





"Buzzwords" serve to separate this year's from last year's, his from my own and your's from their's.

People who like to debate which is better and why Joe is an idiot for buying "X", like "buzzwords" which they can pull out as weapons and they will defend them whenever the topic is brought up in a forum or around the table at a bar.

In the end, "buzzwords" are simply "buzzwords".

IMO alarms should go off in the consumer's mind when they cross paths with a "buzzword". They are, at their most basic purpose, tricks used to lure the unsuspecting buyer into a web from which they cannot extract themself.




The op can do their own research on the pro's and con's of lens based or sensor based image stabilization. It's certainly not difficult to find such discussions and comparisons.

Rather quickly, my opinion is you can take any technology and make it work IF you are willing to devote sufficient amounts of time, effort and cash to its development.

Therefore, if you wish to develop a "buzzword based technology" which can be set apart from all the rest, you can do so. However, applying more time, effort and cash to its development does not mean the technology works "Better" than any other.

It may not (probably won't, in fact) mean it is less complex or more reliable and less costly to repair should it fail.

It simply means you can develop a new "buzzword".

Which gives the retailers something to talk about, the reviewers something to discuss and measure and the buyers to hang their hat on to prove they possess the superior abilities which allow them to seek out and bring down a perceived "superior product".

Yada yada.

The village can eat again!



This is simply how the mass market electronics industry has operated for the last half century.

Specifically, I would not have expected a line such as Nikon or Canon to have produced anything other than lens based IS. Nor would I have expected a manufacturer on the (rather small) scale of Pentax to not make the attempt to find another route to (more or less) the same destination.





"When did weather sealing and image stabilisation become purely "buzz words?" They are in fact premium features."


Another voice from the mulling crowd. Populism has its price.

I never suggested any feature could not be useful to someone. These ideas are all market tested so it stands to reason someone thought "X" was beneficial.

However, like a good lawyer or a good huckster, benefits are perceived by way of how they are presented. Ever hear the phrase, "Sell the sizzle, not the steak"?

I said the industry is full of "buzzwords". You should avoid the trap of buying based on "buzzwords" was my message.

One could argue that at one time the feature "auto-focus" was a "buzzword".

And many seasoned photographers avoided auto-focus systems preferring to rely on the tried and true manual technique. Even today, with auto-focus systems reaching new levels of sophistication, how many buyers are still looking for manual override?

I would say to the extent one might even consider "manual focusing" a new "buzzword" even on those cameras where the LCD screen/viewfinder resolution is not sufficient to actually make use of the technique.

"Focus peaking" is a new "buzzword", is it not? Its actual utility is decided by each individual camera and each individual buyer.

Sell the sizzle.



Weather sealing is fine, if the user requires weather sealing.

To buy weather sealing "just because" seems, to me, to be a complete waste of resources if it is not a required or a highly desirable feature.

Mass market manufacturers deal with relatively small profit margins and it is simply a fact, if not a matter of complete common sense, that they must pay for their product and, therefore, they design with production cost mind.

If one manufacturer provides "#1 feature" that others do not, it is a certainty that the "#1 feature" cost them money to develop and produce and that money had to come from somewhere.

That means, if their product is selling to and at retail at a competitive price, something else had to be short changed in order to provide the funds for that "#1 feature".

The logical conclusion I will leave to each of you.




I take it from both of theses responses to my post regarding "buzzwords" that neither person bothered to click on the link I provided which would have led them to "how to make a decision". You should both go back and do that now.

As I said, I'm not of the opinion that suggesting specific products is all that helpful to the op. I am of the opinion that assisting the op by giving them a manner in which they can set their priorities and list those "#1 features" they do and do not require is a more beneficial way to assist someone struggling with a torrent of "buzzwords" and static on paper specs all about basically similar, if not all but identical, products.

The link I provided will explain how this can be done.

In the meantime, avoid "buzzwords".

They are only words meant to create a momentary buzz in the buyer's head.

A few models down the line, they might not exist at all or, like "auto-focus" they will be viewed by many as inferior to old fashioned manual focus.

That's all I was saying with my warning to avoid "buzzwords".

 

[JacaRanda]

 

[soufiej]

I'm sure someone with your vast experience and wide reaching knowledge already knows all of what I just said.

Some folks do not.

Have a nice day. Try to stay awake.

 

[JacaRanda]

I'm sure someone with your vast experience and wide reaching knowledge already knows all of what I just said.

Some folks do not.

Have a nice day. Try to stay awake.

I have no wide reaching knowledge and my experience is not vast. I also don't know all of what you just said because I fell asleep right after "The question then is, how do you avoid being struck and possibly taken down by all the flotsam and recycled junk occupying so much of the surface water of the crowded pool we all are in? Where do you go to draw some oxygen?"

I will have a nice day and after another cup of coffee, will stay awake.

 

[charchri4]

For what it's worth I have learned 2 things in this process. First call them buzz words or whatever you like but there are some features useful to first time shooters and some features on high end gear that at my experience level would do more harm that good to me.

Second after many MANY hours of research on what 1st camera to buy I believe for the most part it just doesn't matter. If OP has a good eye for framing and even the basics of setting up his gear right he will get good photos out of any of the cameras on his list. If he doesn't have at least a basic skill set then no matter what camera he chooses he's not likely to get great shots.

And of course you need good subject matter too...

 

[soufiej]

Then I'm glad you nodded off. Only a fool would continue to pursue a boring activity ... no matter how worthy. I always thought that was why we were told to pray before going to bed.

Yes, do stay awake. The forum is counting on you.

 

[soufiej]

For what it's worth I have learned 2 things in this process. First call them buzz words or whatever you like but there are some features useful to first time shooters and some features on high end gear that at my experience level would do more harm that good to me.

Second after many MANY hours of research on what 1st camera to buy I believe for the most part it just doesn't matter. If OP has a good eye for framing and even the basics of setting up his gear right he will get good photos out of any of the cameras on his list. If he doesn't have at least a basic skill set then no matter what camera he chooses he's not likely to get great shots.

And of course you need good subject matter too...

There is a decided downside to the mass market camera industry's obsession with making their product more and more fool proof.

If you have a bit of knowledge at all, it takes you quite some time to go through the menus to defeat all the BS features they've added.

Of course, some people see that as a reason for adding more buttons.