Looking into trying Rodinal and have a few questions.

[pixmedic]

I tried Rodinal once...
tasted terrible.
not recommended.

 

[Ornello]

Most photographers know next to nothing about how film works or is constructed.

Then it's lucky you came along when you did because we're all clueless about film photography here.

So it would seem.

Look here:

Manufacturing Cost Breakdown Pt. 1

and here:

A Big Source of Silver Bullion Demand Has Disappeared | Gold News

 

[terri]

Welcome to TPF, Ornello. Resurrecting a 5 year old thread to dispute comments made that long ago seems an odd way to start off, usually a measure relegated to spammers or trolls to push an agenda. I hope we see you participating in more current threads, too. Enjoy the forum!

 

[timor]

In general we know, what is an "overhead". In general we know, that large portion of photographic film and most of the photographic paper (which is more important to survival of analog photography) is manufactured in Europe, which is not cheap place to manufacture anything. What it has to do with "how film works or is constructed" ?

 

[Ornello]

Welcome to TPF, Ornello. Resurrecting a 5 year old thread to dispute comments made that long ago seems an odd way to start off, usually a measure relegated to spammers or trolls to push an agenda. I hope we see you participating in more current threads, too. Enjoy the forum!

I was looking for discussions of Rodinal.

 

[timor]

Let's discuss Rodinal...

 

[Ornello]

In general we know, what is an "overhead". In general we know, that large portion of photographic film and most of the photographic paper (which is more important to survival of analog photography) is manufactured in Europe, which is not cheap place to manufacture anything. What it has to do with "how film works or is constructed" ?

It should be obvious that if silver is $15/oz, and a roll of film (at retail!) costs $6, the amount of silver contained in a roll of film is far less than 1 oz. Thus, saving a small amount of raw silver would hardly make a difference, as other costs are more significant. T-Max films actually cost more to manufacture, by the way.

The fact is that Rodinal is not a very good developer, despite its popularity. The use of strong alkali causes clumping of the crystals, giving a rather grainy appearance. Low-ph developers that use borax as an alkai (such as D-76), or no alkali at all (such as D-23), or even mild acid (D-25) are often more suitable for small format work.

1. Kodak D-25.
   
   
   This formula is recommended by Kodak to produce extra fine-grain negatives than those processed with standard developers, albeit at some loss of film speed.
   
   KODAK D-25
   
   Low to medium contrast fine grain film developer.
   
   Water, 125*F/52*C 750 ml
   Metol 7.5 grams
   Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 100 grams
   Sodium Bisulfite 15 grams
   Water to make 1 Litre.
   
   Mixing instructions: Add chemicals in specified sequence.
   
   Dilution: Use undiluted
   
   Starting point development time: 20 mins.
   
   Replenish with Kodak DK-25R.​

 

[timor]

By how film works and is constructed I understand it's photographic characteristics, not the cost of manufacturing. Especially interesting is an aspect how it works with Rodinal.

 

[Ornello]

By how film works and is constructed I understand it's photographic characteristics, not the cost of manufacturing.

Of course it's both, you see.

 

[timor]

By how film works and is constructed I understand it's photographic characteristics, not the cost of manufacturing.

Of course it's both, you see.

I don't see it. I don't see, how the cost of manufacturing influences action of Rodinal on film emulsion.

 

[Ornello]

By how film works and is constructed I understand it's photographic characteristics, not the cost of manufacturing.

Of course it's both, you see.

I don't see it. I don't see, how the cost of manufacturing influences action of Rodinal on film emulsion.

"How film is constructed" affects its cost and properties.

 

[timor]

You are mixing something up. Let me assure you, none of my cameras care about the price of film I am loading them with. Nor Rodinal cares. I also didn't notice any change in properties of my film going with change of my film cost of manufacturing.

 

[Ornello]

My question:

"No doubt Kodak has been asked this one before: according to rumors circulated by various parties (of which I am not a member), the 'silver content' of various films and papers is supposed to have been diminished by deliberate acts of Kodak to achieve greater profitability over the past few decades. Specifically, some have reported that films such as
Tri-X have been changed over the last 20 or 30 years to contain less silver. I would like Kodak to comment on this."



Answer from the Kodak technical department:

"Regarding Kodak Tri-X products, there are three basic Tri-X products that professional photographers might be involved with. I'm not sure what other films might be included in your description of "films such as Tri-X." A significant change in silver content of traditional B/W films would be accompanied by a significant change in other characteristics: tone reproduction, contrast, and granularity, for example. Consistency of product has always been a prime goal in the manufacture of Tri-X products, and, over the years, comparisons of Kodak products with other manufacturers' products have shown Kodak to be consistently ahead of other manufacturers in this regard. Any "breakthrough" in technology that would allow a significant change in the silver content or image structure would be better introduced to the public as a new product than as a "secret" change to the Tri-X films. In fact, such a breakthrough was introduced with the T-Max films. Although some people within the company expected sales of Tri-X would tail off following the introduction of the T-Max films and that the products would be discontinued due to lack of sales, this has not happened.

The current "best practice" for manufacturing these products is to control the characteristics of all the materials going into the product, and to control all parts of the manufacturing process so that the "standard" product formulation will produce product with consistent characteristics every time. This has been found to work better than the procedure used in past years, when the film formulation engineer had the freedom to "tweak" a component slightly to compensate for apparent changes in raw materials in order to make the resulting product closer to established aims. So it is probably not true to say that a particular Tri-X product has always had the exact same silver level for the past 30 or 40 years. But based on my experience for the last 20 or so, I doubt that there would be any variations greater than 5%, and certainly no permanent, intentional level shift."

 

[Ornello]

You are mixing something up. Let me assure you, none of my cameras care about the price of film I am loading them with. Nor Rodinal cares. I also didn't notice any change in properties of my film going with change of my film cost of manufacturing.

I was talking to someone else, of course.

 

[timor]

That's old news. Change in silver content was forced not by the price of silver but by better understanding of processes of exposure and development. This happened some 35 years ago.