Losing business to amateurs

[snerd]

I'm glad I found this thread. I need to rant. I've been losing some business through some rather crappy means. I've had TWO clients now ask me to help them learn to take better family photos. Well, they study what I do, the angles I use, my lighting, etc, while I'm busy and not watching what they do. Well, I come in a few weeks later and BAM. There they are, DSLR, cheapo lights, doing the same things that they had hired me for. I think I've lost more than two to this. I mean I still have returning clients, so that's a good thing, but this.... ugh. This just pissed me off like no other. One? Well, whatever. TWO now? You have to be kidding me. I no longer trust people. it does make me feel better when I see the ads they put out and the photos look like crap, though.

Often imitated, never duplicated! Don't sweat it, they were going that way anyway.

 

[407370]

I'm glad I found this thread. I need to rant. I've been losing some business through some rather crappy means. I've had TWO clients now ask me to help them learn to take better family photos. Well, they study what I do, the angles I use, my lighting, etc, while I'm busy and not watching what they do. Well, I come in a few weeks later and BAM. There they are, DSLR, cheapo lights, doing the same things that they had hired me for. I think I've lost more than two to this. I mean I still have returning clients, so that's a good thing, but this.... ugh. This just pissed me off like no other. One? Well, whatever. TWO now? You have to be kidding me. I no longer trust people. it does make me feel better when I see the ads they put out and the photos look like crap, though.

So offer to teach them in a seminar at $20 a pop then offer one on one tuition at $50 an hour then offer to help them buy equipment and set it up in their home for your hourly rate then offer to get a "special price" for any prints they want then offer to turn the pics into a professional DVD then offer to show them how to use HDR etc etc etc

 

[minicoop1985]

Snerd, sadly, you're right. There's nothing I can do about it, either, at this point. I'm sure this is far from the last time it will happen, too.

407370, that sounds like the start of a fantastic pyramid scheme.

 

[astroNikon]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, astroNikon. There's more to life than capitalism, but it's a reasonable world view that seems to work for a lot of people.

I forgot what I typed .. but essentially you have your view of the topic and that's it.
So you can detail out your view, and people can take any stance of your view of the topic that they want.

In essence no one's wrong.
There may be a majority etc .. may be bell curve like statistics in the end .. who knows.

Valuation can be monetary
Valuation can be emotional
Valuation can be anything anyone wants to define it as

But in the end, people have to *eat* so they need money (or trade, etc).

 

[astroNikon]

I'm glad I found this thread. I need to rant. I've been losing some business through some rather crappy means. I've had TWO clients now ask me to help them learn to take better family photos. Well, they study what I do, the angles I use, my lighting, etc, while I'm busy and not watching what they do. Well, I come in a few weeks later and BAM. There they are, DSLR, cheapo lights, doing the same things that they had hired me for. I think I've lost more than two to this. I mean I still have returning clients, so that's a good thing, but this.... ugh. This just pissed me off like no other. One? Well, whatever. TWO now? You have to be kidding me. I no longer trust people. it does make me feel better when I see the ads they put out and the photos look like crap, though.

As long as there's Cowboy Studio junk and Canon the ability to spend close to nothing and get into the business is there.
Since they have something that "looks" like the lighting stuff that you have they figured they have the same thing as you, just they were smarter as they only spent $99 for everything where as you've spent thousands.

Well, I didn't mean Canon .. I meant low cost cameras and totally inexperienced people.

 

[snowbear]

And Facebook. Don't forget Facebook and all the "oooh" and "aaaah" that emminate from Facebook friends.

 

[tirediron]

And Facebook. Don't forget Facebook and all the "oooh" and "aaaah" that emminate from Facebook friends.

'cause we all know you're not really a pro 'til have a squidillion likes on facebook!

 

[astroNikon]

If I use $10,000 of woodworking equipment and 2000 hours of labor to make an all-wooden wristwatch that is 3 feet across and weighs 200 pounds, my cost is high. The value of the finished object is arguably not very high, though. Whether you are a capitalist, a Marxist, or something else, the value is just not there.

Business is half about making your costs lower than the value of the produced goods. The other half is selling the produced goods for their value or more.

Why isn't the value of the finished object not very high?
If it was cheaply made then you are correct.
If someone of artisan level creates this as more of an art form (as who wears a 3 foot wide 200 lb wristwatch - or time clock) then they can value it appropriately.

Instead of using cheap wood, one uses mahogany and very accurate internals so the clock is very accurate.

The cost of the woodworking equipment and labor helps determine your breakeven price BUT based on if you plan on making ONE or a hundred watches, and what ever else you would use the equipment for.

Why does a Timex cost less than a Rolex ?
Why does Rolex spend so many labor hours making a watch when Timex can do it in 15 minutes ?
Why hasn't Rolex gone out of business decades ago ?

 

[astroNikon]

Some posters in this thread seem to be taking it as a given that photographs and photography have value, and fairly high value at that.

Would anyone care to take a stab at explaining why? Where does this value come from?

When I buy a car I understand that steel costs money. I understand that the labor of assembling cars is not much fun, and that therefore I need to pay pretty well for that. I understand that auto design is actually very complex and difficult and I have to pay for that. Raw materials, completed subassemblies, and finished cars have to be transported around, which costs labor and fuel.

What are the components of photography and photographs that justify a high price? Or any price above $0 for that matter?

Personal experience. I've been paid a decent weekly salary for my photographic services.

we use paid photographers where I work too
Even the students are paid a fairly significant sum per hour ....

something I'm kinda trying to wiggle into as a side job .. somehow as I still have a primary job lol

 

[snerd]

............ Well, I didn't mean Canon .. I meant low cost cameras and totally inexperienced people.

Why, I oughta....................

 

[DevC]

I'm not sure where this thread is going, but i'm gonna reply to the OP.

Unfortunately, the truth of the matter is, its a supply and demand game. IF your friends product is simply not as good as another's free product, then your friend is SOL. Your friend needs to improve his product better than what can be done for "Free".


Now, needless to say, the person that beat her out should be charging so she could make some $$$ herself, but her decision not to charge is her decision solely.

Unfortunately in this day and age, photo services are becoming less and less necessary. There is nothing that could be done/said about that. Either its time to expand horizons or not to look at this field Professionally.

 

[lambertpix]

I'm glad I found this thread. I need to rant. I've been losing some business through some rather crappy means. I've had TWO clients now ask me to help them learn to take better family photos. Well, they study what I do, the angles I use, my lighting, etc, while I'm busy and not watching what they do. Well, I come in a few weeks later and BAM. There they are, DSLR, cheapo lights, doing the same things that they had hired me for. I think I've lost more than two to this. I mean I still have returning clients, so that's a good thing, but this.... ugh. This just pissed me off like no other. One? Well, whatever. TWO now? You have to be kidding me. I no longer trust people. it does make me feel better when I see the ads they put out and the photos look like crap, though.

If that was their intent anyway, you're not going to stop them. Better that you'd make a buck teaching them, I think, and do a good enough job that they come back for more lessons. If you stay in contact with these people for any length of time, I'd be interested in learning whether they come back and recognize that this photography stuff is maybe just a little more difficult than they'd appreciated when they started.

 

[astroNikon]

............ Well, I didn't mean Canon .. I meant low cost cameras and totally inexperienced people.

Why, I oughta....................

 

[minicoop1985]

As long as there's Cowboy Studio junk and Canon the ability to spend close to nothing and get into the business is there.
Since they have something that "looks" like the lighting stuff that you have they figured they have the same thing as you, just they were smarter as they only spent $99 for everything where as you've spent thousands.

Well, I didn't mean Canon .. I meant low cost cameras and totally inexperienced people.

This is true. Hey, wait a minute.....

If that was their intent anyway, you're not going to stop them. Better that you'd make a buck teaching them, I think, and do a good enough job that they come back for more lessons. If you stay in contact with these people for any length of time, I'd be interested in learning whether they come back and recognize that this photography stuff is maybe just a little more difficult than they'd appreciated when they started.

Exactly. I didn't burn any bridges for that reason. I mean I was rather incensed, but I didn't explode on them like I wanted to... I will, however, charge them more.

 

[photoguy99]

The point is that cost hasn't anything to do with value. If you want to make some labored argument that a gigantic wooden wristwatch had value, more power to ya.

The underlying point remains, though.

The fact that something is hard or expensive to do does not impart value to the final product.