LR keywording vs. tags

[<error>]

Looking for some input how and if Lightroom could handle this:

I am the chief photographer of my mom+pop company. We design and make jewelry and home decoration objects. And I need to organise my photos.

First decision is Collections or Keywords, and I think that Keywords together with Smart Collections will do what I need.

But then we have product lines, and I shoot at shows, and we have expositions and what not. I feel overwhelmed thinking creating Keywords for each and everything, and was looking for some freetext keyword facility that still is accessible for searching and Smart Collections.

I haven't found anything so far, and was wondering how catalog management can best be done. It's maybe just an organisation, workflow, thing and I am very open to learn more about that.

Any pointers, plugins, websites I should study?

Thank much in advance!

 

[sscarmack]

I organize everything into folders.

Sports
.....Softball
...............Girls
.........................Youth
.........................High School
...............Boys

Portraits
.....Seniors
...............2015
.........................Mike Brad
.........................Em Mel


etc etc.

Here is a screen shot.

I only keyword if its extremely specific. Like if I want to quickly find a picture of PNC Park. But folders help keep me organized and I can quickly find any photo I'm looking for in the matter of seconds.

Hope this helps.

 

[The_Traveler]

Looking for some input how and if Lightroom could handle this:

First decision is Collections or Keywords, and I think that Keywords together with Smart Collections will do what I need.
But then we have product lines, and I shoot at shows, and we have expositions and what not. I feel overwhelmed thinking creating Keywords for each and everything, and was looking for some freetext keyword facility that still is accessible for searching and Smart Collections.

I haven't found anything so far, and was wondering how catalog management can best be done. It's maybe just an organisation, workflow, thing and I am very open to learn more about that.

First organize your shots and figure out a usable keyword hierarchy for the basic keywords you need and install it.
install keyword hierarchy lightroom - Google Search
Then add keywords to imports.

Add additional free text in keyword box as you go along.
LR allows for fairly sophisticated free text search in the library filter bar accessed with \.

 

[Big Mike]

The first level of organization should be your folder structure for the original files. A lot of people use a date based system, although I've found that after 10 years, the dates mean less and less, so I'm transitioning to named folders. Besides, the date is already in the metadata, so I can search & sort by date easily.

Once inside Lightroom, you can use flags, colors, star ratings and keywords...and of course, collections.

My suggestion is to use keywords for all your images, and use as many keywords as you think you will find useful. For example, add a keyword for the product line and then maybe a couple more that describe the photo and/or the subject of the photo. For example, "Company Name, Jewellery, Product line, Ring, Silver, etc"

The more effort you put into adding keywords, the more useful the archive will be to you.

Adding keywords takes some effort, but it's not too hard. You can select as many images as you want, and add keywords to all of them at once. You can use the 'paint can' tool to 'spray on' keywords to images as you browse the grid view. LR remembers your most used keywords so you just have to click rather than type them all the time, plus is offers suggestions based on keywords you have added already.

Once the images have keywords, you can use the filter to search images by those words. You can 'stack' several filter options to narrow your search with multiple keywords or by other ratings or metadata.

Thing of it this way, if you add two keywords to some of your images, you now have 4 search options.

1. no keyword
2. first keyword only
3. second keyword only
4. both keywords

If you add more keywords, you have many more options.


I also use flags. White flag (pick), black flag (set for deletion) and un-flagged. Typically I use them to sort through a group of newly imported images, to pick out the keepers and the ones I'm going to delete. After the sorting, I may or may not keep the flag ratings on the images.
I use colors in a similar way. If I have a specific purpose (say, images for a catalog), I will go though and give them a red label. Then I use that label to filter them out.

The star ratings are yet another tool to use. Some people use the 'movie rating' system where one star is low and 5 stars are best. I don't use this because I know that I'm probably never going to use one, two, or three star images. Another way to use the stars (or colors) would be to come up with a personal meaning. For example, you could give 1 star to images that you want to keep and look at later. Two starts are images that you might keep as a reference/catalog. Three starts are images that will go on the website. Four starts are images that go onto your printed media and five stars are the best images that might be display images etc. Whatever works for you.

Then we should talk about collections. A collection is a way to group images, temporarily or permanently, without having to move/sort the actual files. You can create a collection that includes images from all over your folder structure, and when in the collection, it's like they are all in a single folder.

Typically, I will go through my new images and pick the ones I want to use. I then put those 'keepers' into a collection. Then when I go to edit the images, I just click on the collection so that I only have to see/work on the keepers.

You can use collections to make any grouping of images that you want. You can have the same image in multiple collections if you like.

There are also Smart collections. With these, you set one or multiple metadata values and LR will automatically find images that criteria and put them into the collection. And going forward, if you import new images with those criteria, they will automatically get put into the smart collection.

For example, you could make for for the keyword 'Ring', and it will collect any image you have tagged with the word ring.

One of the good things about collections, is that they are accessible from all the modules of Lightroom. So you make the collection in Library, but when you go to Develop or Print, Web, Slideshow etc....all you have to do is click on the collection and those images are in the 'filmstrip'.

I would suggest that you start adding keywords as part of your workflow. So when you import your images, you can add keywords right there. Or when you have them imported, add the keywords right away. This will save you from having to go back and add them later, which is usually a boring task.

 

[KmH]

LR's Library module is a database manager. So you need to use keywords if you want to optimize the search-ability of your image database.
Keywording can be a time consuming effort at first but the time and effort spent pays off in the long run.

Relying on keywording also means only having 1 catalog because LR can only open 1 catalog at a time, a serious limitation of LR.

The best resource I have found for streamlining image ingestion and getting maximum benefit for an image database is:
The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for Photographers

 

[Dave442]

My folder structure is by date. All photos with keywords. Title and Caption added to all photos with 2 stars and above and my be on lower rated photos if its just a batch copy/paste. Collections used to group photos together (I may have a hundred shots of the same product taken over two years and the twenty best shots are together in a Collection).

My file names have the date added before the camera generated name when I import into LR, so if I am in a Collection I can just look at the name of the photo and know the folder that photo is in plus the rest of the shots from that day (where I may have another shot that is better suited for a specific edit).

At some point I will get that DAM book, but so far what I use is working much better than before I had LR.

 

[<error>]

So great! Thanks for all your valuable input and thoughts.

First task is to shuffle my images around into named folders, instead of date. That way, and even if I lose my LR catalog, everything is at least a little bit organised.

Then I have been thinking about LR Keywords. I prefer to see them as tags. I'll use them for the basic classification of my images. I will try to find the most generic set of tags for them as I want to keep the list relatively small.

Finally, I will add another field to the LR database that are used for keywords. My own freetext keywords, not the LR ones. For this, I will try John Beardsworth's Big Note plugin and tweak it to my needs (we was kind ennough not to compile the plugin, so it can be modified and added to). Here's the link to the plugin: www.lightroomsolutions.com/plug-ins/big-note/

I'll see how that all goes and work together. Thanks again for sharing your experiences.

 

[The_Traveler]

So great! First task is to shuffle my images around into named folders, instead of date. That way, and even if I lose my LR catalog, everything is at least a little bit organised.

Then I have been thinking about LR Keywords. I prefer to see them as tags. I'll use them for the basic classification of my images. I will try to find the most generic set of tags for them as I want to keep the list relatively small.

Finally, I will add another field to the LR database that are used for keywords. My own freetext keywords, not the LR ones. For this, I will try John Beardsworth's Big Note plugin and tweak it to my needs (we was kind ennough not to compile the plugin, so it can be modified and added to). Here's the link to the plugin: www.lightroomsolutions.com/plug-ins/big-note/

I'll see how that all goes and work together. Thanks again for sharing your experiences.

To be honest, folders by subject is not a sensible way to organize pictures because most images can easily have multiple subjects.
For example, if I have a picture of a grandchild named Ben holding a dog on a leash while visiting Disneyland, does that go in the folder for 'Ben', 'grandchildren', 'dog' or 'Disneyland'?
Additionally, if you have misfiled something, how do you ever find it?

Why is it necessary to keep any set of keywords/tags small?

The ease of a hierarchical set of keywords is that you can gather things up at any level.

Lew

 

[sscarmack]

So great! First task is to shuffle my images around into named folders, instead of date. That way, and even if I lose my LR catalog, everything is at least a little bit organised.

Then I have been thinking about LR Keywords. I prefer to see them as tags. I'll use them for the basic classification of my images. I will try to find the most generic set of tags for them as I want to keep the list relatively small.

Finally, I will add another field to the LR database that are used for keywords. My own freetext keywords, not the LR ones. For this, I will try John Beardsworth's Big Note plugin and tweak it to my needs (we was kind ennough not to compile the plugin, so it can be modified and added to). Here's the link to the plugin: www.lightroomsolutions.com/plug-ins/big-note/

I'll see how that all goes and work together. Thanks again for sharing your experiences.

To be honest, folders by subject is not a sensible way to organize pictures because most images can easily have multiple subjects.
For example, if I have a picture of a grandchild named Ben holding a dog on a leash while visiting Disneyland, does that go in the folder for 'Ben', 'grandchildren', 'dog' or 'Disneyland'?
Additionally, if you have misfiled something, how do you ever find it?

Why is it necessary to keep any set of keywords/tags small?

The ease of a hierarchical set of keywords is that you can gather things up at any level.

Lew

I honestly disagree with this. If you're at Disneyland, to me, thats a "Vacation". So it would belong in a Vacation folder or some folder that describes locations thats I've visited.

Then I would break it down by keywords "Ben" "Grandchildren" "Dog".


But thats just my opinion and how I would do it

 

[Scatterbrained]

So great! First task is to shuffle my images around into named folders, instead of date. That way, and even if I lose my LR catalog, everything is at least a little bit organised.

Then I have been thinking about LR Keywords. I prefer to see them as tags. I'll use them for the basic classification of my images. I will try to find the most generic set of tags for them as I want to keep the list relatively small.

Finally, I will add another field to the LR database that are used for keywords. My own freetext keywords, not the LR ones. For this, I will try John Beardsworth's Big Note plugin and tweak it to my needs (we was kind ennough not to compile the plugin, so it can be modified and added to). Here's the link to the plugin: www.lightroomsolutions.com/plug-ins/big-note/

I'll see how that all goes and work together. Thanks again for sharing your experiences.

To be honest, folders by subject is not a sensible way to organize pictures because most images can easily have multiple subjects.
For example, if I have a picture of a grandchild named Ben holding a dog on a leash while visiting Disneyland, does that go in the folder for 'Ben', 'grandchildren', 'dog' or 'Disneyland'?
Additionally, if you have misfiled something, how do you ever find it?

Why is it necessary to keep any set of keywords/tags small?

The ease of a hierarchical set of keywords is that you can gather things up at any level.

Lew

If I want to find a picture of my kids that I took at DisneyWorld, I simply look in the Disney World folder and search their names.

 

[The_Traveler]

I honestly disagree with this. If you're at Disneyland, to me, thats a "Vacation". So it would belong in a Vacation folder or some folder that describes locations thats I've visited.

Then I would break it down by keywords "Ben" "Grandchildren" "Dog".

How do you deal with multiple trips to vacations, ball games, etc.?
Each year or each trip you have a new vacation or trip folder?

Not trying to hassle you but this kind of problem is exactly the reason that data bases and cataloging systems were invented to handle.
Keywords allow any kind of cataloging even saving everything in a single folder.

 

[Scatterbrained]

I honestly disagree with this. If you're at Disneyland, to me, thats a "Vacation". So it would belong in a Vacation folder or some folder that describes locations thats I've visited.

Then I would break it down by keywords "Ben" "Grandchildren" "Dog".

How do you deal with multiple trips to vacations, ball games, etc.?
Each year or each trip you have a new vacation or trip folder?

Not trying to hassle you but this kind of problem is exactly the reason that data bases and cataloging systems were invented to handle.
Keywords allow any kind of cataloging even saving everything in a single folder.

Well, you could keep a "vacations" or "travel" folder; inside of which you would have sub folders for each trip. Or, if you travel to the same places over and over, you can have folders for each place and then sub folders for each trip to that place.

 

[The_Traveler]

I honestly disagree with this. If you're at Disneyland, to me, thats a "Vacation". So it would belong in a Vacation folder or some folder that describes locations thats I've visited.

Then I would break it down by keywords "Ben" "Grandchildren" "Dog".

How do you deal with multiple trips to vacations, ball games, etc.?
Each year or each trip you have a new vacation or trip folder?

Not trying to hassle you but this kind of problem is exactly the reason that data bases and cataloging systems were invented to handle.
Keywords allow any kind of cataloging even saving everything in a single folder.

Well, you could keep a "vacations" or "travel" folder; inside of which you would have sub folders for each trip. Or, if you travel to the same places over and over, you can have folders for each place and then sub folders for each trip to that place.

That's exactly my point.
Every (or most) pictures could be filed in lots of places, depending on how you are thinking when you start - and how well you have predicted what the future might bring.
And since you eventually will use keywords to find pictures that are filed in a scheme that doesn't match your system, why not just start doing it in a way that requires no planning that can't be easily corrected.
File by date and use keywords.

 

[Scatterbrained]

I honestly disagree with this. If you're at Disneyland, to me, thats a "Vacation". So it would belong in a Vacation folder or some folder that describes locations thats I've visited.

Then I would break it down by keywords "Ben" "Grandchildren" "Dog".

How do you deal with multiple trips to vacations, ball games, etc.?
Each year or each trip you have a new vacation or trip folder?

Not trying to hassle you but this kind of problem is exactly the reason that data bases and cataloging systems were invented to handle.
Keywords allow any kind of cataloging even saving everything in a single folder.

Well, you could keep a "vacations" or "travel" folder; inside of which you would have sub folders for each trip. Or, if you travel to the same places over and over, you can have folders for each place and then sub folders for each trip to that place.

That's exactly my point.
Every (or most) pictures could be filed in lots of places, depending on how you are thinking when you start - and how well you have predicted what the future might bring.
And since you eventually will use keywords to find pictures that are filed in a scheme that doesn't match your system, why not just start doing it in a way that requires no planning that can't be easily corrected.
File by date and use keywords.

Keywording every single images is tedious. I don't do it. I file my studio shoots under either portraits, products, or still life, then have folders for each shoot. Travel photos are filed by location and event photos are filed by event with subfolders for each year of the event.

From there it's a matter of simply keywording my selected images (I may pick one image from each "set" of images to keyword) then, if need by I can set up a smart collection. For example, rather than have a folder for images of my kids, I have a smart collection for images of my kids. This way it doesn't matter if the image came from Disney, Busch Gardens, the beach, or my Dad's house; if my girls are tagged in the picture it will end up in their smart collection. That's part of the beauty of how things work in Lr. You can use smart collections as a secondary file structure. For example, you may decide you want to put a new portfolio together. Let's also assume that you give all of your "finished and print ready" images a green label, then assume you give your absolute favorites a 5 star. Now assume you want to only include still life, product, and studio portraits. You can create a smart collection that will filter just for 5 star, green labeled, still life/product/portrait images. Once that smart collection is created, any image that fits the description will be added.

 

[sscarmack]

I honestly disagree with this. If you're at Disneyland, to me, thats a "Vacation". So it would belong in a Vacation folder or some folder that describes locations thats I've visited.

Then I would break it down by keywords "Ben" "Grandchildren" "Dog".

How do you deal with multiple trips to vacations, ball games, etc.?
Each year or each trip you have a new vacation or trip folder?

Not trying to hassle you but this kind of problem is exactly the reason that data bases and cataloging systems were invented to handle.
Keywords allow any kind of cataloging even saving everything in a single folder.

Easy


Vacation
..............Disney
.........................2010
.........................2015
..............Bahamas
.........................2012
.........................2014


For the most part, you'll know how long ago you took the photos, and when you visited Disney, whether it was last year, or 5 years ago. Stuff like that doesn't slip your mind, or at least mine.

And If you want, you can then break the year down into sub folders, maybe "Epcot", "Magic Kingdom", etc.



No hassle just a friendly "debate".