Major Journalism Question

[Socrates]

Giving someone an item due to intimidation real or apparent constitutes theft in law.

skieur

Not necessarily.

 

[Socrates]

In a perfect society ... that may be the best course ... but if the OP is serious about righting this wrong then don't except the principal to:
1) understand 1st amendment rights and freedom of the press; and
2) respect the concerns of a student.

The images contained in the camera are a liability for the principal and the school district ... the principal will place his well being and job security on the top of his list of concerns ... the concern for the student will be right below getting his/her clothes from the cleaners. (It will be the exceptional principal that thinks otherwise.) Similarly, most attorney's will feel likewise about a kids 1st amendment's right being bullied and trampled by the school district and ... as Judge Sharp above stated, "... just get over it."

As a former journalist and as one who has had to face a trial and the wrath of the Anaheim Police Department over 1st Amendment rights ... I take all these instances seriously.

Gary

PS- As a course of what is proper and of honor you should allow the school the opportunity to remedy the situation ... but don't hold your breath with the expectation of a positive, pro-1st amendment outcome.
G

PSPS- Amongst other actions, you should enlist the services of a reporter from your school newspaper and write a series of stories on what happened to you and the aftermath as you attempt to reverse the wrong. Interview elected officials, the Police Chief, ACLA officials ... and publish it all ... if you think they school was brutal in destroying your images ... wait until they get wind of this approach ... contact local electronic talk shows and newspapers ... start a blog of your findings. You will truly learn a lot of how "The System" works ... a real eye opener.
G

PSPSPS- If you do follow this course , keep me in the loop, I'd love to follow the action.
G

PSPSPSPS- If you are interested in journalism as a career ... this course of action, especially if executed by you in a leadership position ... will show conviction, moral fiber and will be instrumental as a tool to help you be admitted into the college of your choice. On the flip side ... there is always a flip side ... the school authorities my define your actions as "defiance of authority" and keep tossing referrals at you until you are expelled.
G

This has nothing to do with any alleged "First Amendment rights." Children's rights are routinely limited.

 

[Seefutlung]

This has nothing to do with any alleged "First Amendment rights." Children's rights are routinely limited.

Are you a constitutional attorney or a constitutional expert of some kind? What similar cases have you reviewed which clearly supports your statement? What background or expertise do you draw upon to make such an all encompassing remark? Additionally, the Op mentioned that he was in high school, by which construing or assuming that he is a minor based solely upon his schooling level is not valid.

I am neither an attorney or a constitutional expert, but, the OP ... as a staffer for the school's newspaper covering a fast breaking and bonafide news event of which the community has the right to know ... and knowledge of this event may serve to the betterment of the community as a whole ... I see 1st Amendment all over this.

While true, minors have less rights than adults, 1st Amendment trumps all that ... then toss in the malicious and wanton destruction of evidence (as pointed out by the Judge Sharp) ... there seems a lot of meat here for unlawful practices in many different arenas.

But, as you pointed out nothing is clear cut (the flip side of the coin) ... which is precisely why we have courts ... attorneys and expert witnesses to make the arguments for both sides.

Gary

 

[Socrates]

Are you a constitutional attorney or a constitutional expert of some kind? What similar cases have you reviewed which clearly supports your statement? What background or expertise do you draw upon to make such an all encompassing remark? Additionally, the Op mentioned that he was in high school, by which construing or assuming that he is a minor based solely upon his schooling level is not valid.

I am neither an attorney or a constitutional expert, but, the OP ... as a staffer for the school's newspaper covering a fast breaking and bonafide news event of which the community has the right to know ... and knowledge of this event may serve to the betterment of the community as a whole ... I see 1st Amendment all over this.

While true, minors have less rights than adults, 1st Amendment trumps all that ... then toss in the malicious and wanton destruction of evidence (as pointed out by the Judge Sharp) ... there seems a lot of meat here for unlawful practices in many different arenas.

But, as you pointed out nothing is clear cut (the flip side of the coin) ... which is precisely why we have courts ... attorneys and expert witnesses to make the arguments for both sides.

Gary

Former member (and president) of the school board. What are your credentials?

Be reminded that I am somewhat confused by the OP's statement that he was specifically given permission to carry the camera because "they" knew he was a journalism student (or something like that, his post is not in front of me). I don't know who he meant by "they."

Just to give you an idea regarding the "rights" that the students do not possess, we could routinely search lockers based on nothing more than a teacher's hunch (no warrant required). There was a restriction that the decision MUST have been a school decision. We could not do the search based upon a request from the police in the absence of a warrant. However, if we did the search on our own and uncovered any illegal substances, we could then contact the police for subsequent prosecution.

By the way, yes I do conclude that a high school student is a minor and I consider that to be a reasonable conclusion.

 

[abraxas]

I don't know the law in the U.K. and, in the U.S., the law differs among the states. However, in the state where I live, students do not have the same rights as adults. ...

What state is that?

Former member (and president) of the school board. What are your credentials?

Be reminded that I am somewhat confused ...

You know, I've never seen a photo you've posted. Would love to see your work.

 

[Seefutlung]

Former member (and president) of the school board. What are your credentials?

Be reminded that I am somewhat confused by the OP's statement that he was specifically given permission to carry the camera because "they" knew he was a journalism student (or something like that, his post is not in front of me).

Just to give you an idea regarding the "rights" that the students do not possess, we could routinely search lockers with nothing more than a teacher's hunch (no warrant required). In my state, there was a restriction that the decision MUST have been a school decision. We could not do the search upon a request from the police. However, if we did the search on our own and uncovered any illegal substances, we could then contact the police for subsequent prosecution.

Former Board of Trustees for a private school 1 - 8.

Photo Journalist. Arrested by police and went through an extensive 1st Amendment trial where I was found innocent. Majored in Communications/journalism where several "Law of Mass Communications" classes were a core prerequisite for graduation.

Government wise - Los Angeles City Commissioner (Vice President). Consultant to State and local lawmakers/elected officials in the drafting of environmental laws.

Volunteer consultant to a private high school administrators and a public high school administrators. I spoke with a high school principal and an administrator regarding Photographer Clayton's case, prior to my post with all the "PS's".

While I see the expertise for your statement of "Children's rights are routinely limited." I see no expertise for you to be able to clearly and undeniable state that this is not a 1st Amendment case.

Gary

PS- Here I am about to be arrested which ultimately required a trial:

I am not the photog in the picture ... that's an AP photog ... the hand belongs to the long arm of the law about to snatch me up.
G

 

[KOrmechea]

A school is, like it or not, PUBLIC PROPERTY

I backed into a Hummer at my former high school once (a public high school). An officer responded to the owners call but wouldn't really do anything because "they don't respond to accident calls on private property..."

I'm not trying to make a statement or anything (or maybe I am), but it just struck me as odd. I thought it was public too...

 

[Seefutlung]

I fear that this thread is moving away from the OP's request for information ... so I will refrain from further posts ... I leave a closing statement that I suggest he finds his answer(s) amongst those most qualified to provide said answers ... the legal community, those with 1st Amendment expertise and balanced with opinions from legal experts with expertise with education/schools and minors (should Photographer Clayton actually be a minor).

Gary

 

[Socrates]

I see no expertise for you to be able to clearly and undeniable state that this is not a 1st Amendment case.
G

It's not a First Amendment case unless and until it's a case. The OP made no reference to any court action and, in the absence of court action, this is not a "case" of any sort. Now, if you wish to bankroll the student to obtain a court decision, my response would be different.

Neat picture!

 

[Socrates]

I backed into a Hummer at my former high school once (a public high school). An officer responded to the owners call but wouldn't really do anything because "they don't respond to accident calls on private property..."

I'm not trying to make a statement or anything (or maybe I am), but it just struck me as odd. I thought it was public too...

I can't remember the legality behind that but school property is in somewhat of a special category.

 

[Seefutlung]

It's not a First Amendment case unless and until it's a case. The OP made no reference to any court action and, in the absence of court action, this is not a "case" of any sort. Now, if you wish to bankroll the student to obtain a court decision, my response would be different.

Neat picture!

Oh please ... now you're attempting to divert the "argument" to something completely different and totally irrelevant. Okay Socrates ... you're right .. it's Not a 1st Amendment Case because you say so or until I pay for it.

Man, I should have stopped when I said I was gonna stop. I'm out of here ... Socrates you gotta find someone else to troll.

 

[abraxas]

I can't remember the legality behind that but school property is in somewhat of a special category.

Then you're pretending?

 

[skieur]

Not necessarily.

That is defined and written into the law in some areas.

skieur

 

[skieur]

I backed into a Hummer at my former high school once (a public high school). An officer responded to the owners call but wouldn't really do anything because "they don't respond to accident calls on private property..."

I'm not trying to make a statement or anything (or maybe I am), but it just struck me as odd. I thought it was public too...

A school may be public property but it is not a public place as defined in law. Public place is defined by access and access to schools is limited to parents/gardians, students, school board employees, education officials, police, fire, etc. It is NOT accessible to the general public and trespass laws can be exercised by the principal or board official against anyone that they feel does not belong on school property.

skieur

 

[Doug]

I'm wondering if there were any witnesses that saw or heard the SRO. If not then it’s a he said, I said situation regardless of who is right or wrong. This is not meant that Photographer Clayton can’t pursue action; it’s just going to be more work. I think that Photographer Clayton should have said Lets go talk to my Photojournalism Teacher and see what he or she has to say.

Photographer Clayton, if Photojournalism is the career you want to pursue than this is the type of situations that you are going to have to deal with. This could be the perfect opportunity to learn your way through this type of treatment from others. You will definitely have to stick up for what you believe in and know is right.

I would say chalk this up to a learning experience because the story is now old news and the TV and papers won’t want it now. I say this because that is how it will be when you are on the job trying to make a living. Not because you were treated wrong, that’s another story.

Like mentioned earlier in the thread there is software that will recover the images provided you didn’t fill the card with more images. Remember that the images haven’t been deleted; the camera has just been permitted to write over the data that is there.