Manual Shooting Issues

[Ysarex]

Close the Basics tab and open the HSL tab. That's Hue, Saturation, and Luminance. Select Hue and set the value for Orange to -35 and the value of Yellow to -40. Then select Saturation and set the value of Orange up to 30. There's the rest of your grass color.

Joe

 

[Ysarex]

Open the Effects tab and find the option for Post crop vignette. Most photos benefit for a slight corner darkening. Try -5 with a midpoint of 25.

Joe

 

[darkblue-x]

This is why you're using LR. In the early years a raw converter allowed use to get a good overall conversion of the raw file but did not provide this kind of discreet local adjustment. This is the big change we've experienced in the last decade. The better raw converters are now giving us the ability to parametrically edit our raw files and make discreet local changes to tone response and color. That then often permits us to complete the edit we want to do entirely in the parametric editor -- big advantage.

Now go back to the Basics panel and check the white and black clipping points and reset them.

Joe

whites +24
blacks -23

 

[darkblue-x]

Open the Effects tab and find the option for Post crop vignette. Most photos benefit for a slight corner darkening. Try -5 with a midpoint of 25.

Joe

Okay, I'm there.

 

[Ysarex]

This is why you're using LR. In the early years a raw converter allowed use to get a good overall conversion of the raw file but did not provide this kind of discreet local adjustment. This is the big change we've experienced in the last decade. The better raw converters are now giving us the ability to parametrically edit our raw files and make discreet local changes to tone response and color. That then often permits us to complete the edit we want to do entirely in the parametric editor -- big advantage.

Now go back to the Basics panel and check the white and black clipping points and reset them.

Joe

whites +24
blacks -23

Yep, I had whites 21 and blacks -29 -- photos need black!

Now you can go to File and Export a JPEG. Go to the Library module and find the photo. Right click on it and select Create Virtual Copy. All your edits will transfer. You can now create a different version -- maybe B&W if you like. Your raw file is never altered and you have total re-edit access to everything you did including as many versions as you'd like. This is best-in-class workflow. Only one other software app competes right now with LR in this regard and that's Capture One. ACDSee is getting close.

Your exposures were good. If you really take raw shooting seriously and work to get that under good control then your working definition of good exposure is a little different than if shooting JPEGs. Shooting JPEGs we expose to get normal brightness in the JPEG. Shooting raw we push to get maximum exposure to the sensor so that diffuse highlights are placed just below the sensor threshold. Being able to see the raw file histogram is important. We like RawDigger, but you can get a raw histogram from Raw Therapee for free. RawDigger is $25.00.

Joe

 

[Ysarex]

Open the Effects tab and find the option for Post crop vignette. Most photos benefit for a slight corner darkening. Try -5 with a midpoint of 25.

Joe

Okay, I'm there.

You should have a file close to the second version of your barn I posted. That's all I did.

Joe

Calling it a night -- be around tomorrow.

 

[darkblue-x]

This is why you're using LR. In the early years a raw converter allowed use to get a good overall conversion of the raw file but did not provide this kind of discreet local adjustment. This is the big change we've experienced in the last decade. The better raw converters are now giving us the ability to parametrically edit our raw files and make discreet local changes to tone response and color. That then often permits us to complete the edit we want to do entirely in the parametric editor -- big advantage.

Now go back to the Basics panel and check the white and black clipping points and reset them.

Joe

whites +24
blacks -23

Yep, I had whites 21 and blacks -29 -- photos need black!

Now you can go to File and Export a JPEG. Go to the Library module and find the photo. Right click on it and select Create Virtual Copy. All your edits will transfer. You can now create a different version -- maybe B&W if you like. Your raw file is never altered and you have total re-edit access to everything you did including as many versions as you'd like. This is best-in-class workflow. Only one other software app competes right now with LR in this regard and that's Capture One. ACDSee is getting close.

Your exposures were good. If you really take raw shooting seriously and work to get that under good control then your working definition of good exposure is a little different than if shooting JPEGs. Shooting JPEGs we expose to get normal brightness in the JPEG. Shooting raw we push to get maximum exposure to the sensor so that diffuse highlights are placed just below the sensor threshold. Being able to see the raw file histogram is important. We like RawDigger, but you can get a raw histogram from Raw Therapee for free. RawDigger is $25.00.

Joe

I can't thank you enough for walking me through all of that!

Couple of questions: how many times did we go back to readjust the black and whites? I had gone back the one time you had said and toggled the alt key to make the screen black on the whites, and then same for blacks but toggling just to get a spec of black. It left me at the same numbers I had mentioned earlier. Not sure if that may negatively affect the photo to a noticeable degree.
Here's my version after following your instructions: Dropbox - DSC_0083.jpg

 

[vintagesnaps]

I think you're a better photographer than you think. The exposures looked pretty good to me; actually I think this last version is getting overdone. I mean, it is nature, how much beyond what it actually looks like do you want to take it? how vibrant is the color in real life? Not that you can't make it less realistic and get creative, but it is a scene that is naturally occurring (well, much of it, not the barn itself! lol).

You might want to think about composition; you have more than one with a subject centered, which can work but often doesn't make for the best balance in a composition. Walk around some, change your vantage point, and see what other photos you can get from the same subject or scene. I also think the photo of the barn (great subject and nice photo of it) could be better if you could have gotten closer (although maybe that wasn't an option) to fill the frame more. I like the idea of cattails in the foreground, framing the barn, but as it is you've got one sticking up on one side and one that's dark lower right, and to me they end up being visually distracting. I'd think about if something adds to the photo, and if or where it should be in the frame. That's where you could change the vantage point and 'move' the cattails to where they look best as you're framing shots, where they look best in the composition(s).

Hope you keep enjoying taking photos, the more you practice the better you'll get. You seem on the right track.

(And I shoot all manual, most of the time; you may figure out what works best for you. I find it gives me the control I want over the camera settings.)

 

[Ysarex]

This is why you're using LR. In the early years a raw converter allowed use to get a good overall conversion of the raw file but did not provide this kind of discreet local adjustment. This is the big change we've experienced in the last decade. The better raw converters are now giving us the ability to parametrically edit our raw files and make discreet local changes to tone response and color. That then often permits us to complete the edit we want to do entirely in the parametric editor -- big advantage.

Now go back to the Basics panel and check the white and black clipping points and reset them.

Joe

whites +24
blacks -23

Yep, I had whites 21 and blacks -29 -- photos need black!

Now you can go to File and Export a JPEG. Go to the Library module and find the photo. Right click on it and select Create Virtual Copy. All your edits will transfer. You can now create a different version -- maybe B&W if you like. Your raw file is never altered and you have total re-edit access to everything you did including as many versions as you'd like. This is best-in-class workflow. Only one other software app competes right now with LR in this regard and that's Capture One. ACDSee is getting close.

Your exposures were good. If you really take raw shooting seriously and work to get that under good control then your working definition of good exposure is a little different than if shooting JPEGs. Shooting JPEGs we expose to get normal brightness in the JPEG. Shooting raw we push to get maximum exposure to the sensor so that diffuse highlights are placed just below the sensor threshold. Being able to see the raw file histogram is important. We like RawDigger, but you can get a raw histogram from Raw Therapee for free. RawDigger is $25.00.

Joe

I can't thank you enough for walking me through all of that!

Couple of questions: how many times did we go back to readjust the black and whites? I had gone back the one time you had said and toggled the alt key to make the screen black on the whites, and then same for blacks but toggling just to get a spec of black. It left me at the same numbers I had mentioned earlier. Not sure if that may negatively affect the photo to a noticeable degree.

Your photo looks good. Next step process some of your other photos and post them up for critique. White and black clipping points look good, overall tone response and color look good. The clipping points: There are exceptions to all rules but there are also rules and the rules are really good guides. You never want to become slavish about the rules but you're lost and flailing around without them. A photo typically looks it's best when it takes full advantage of the available tonal range (white to black) that's why we fuss over the white and black clipping points. If you clip diffuse highlights (eg. white clouds) you lose color and detail and end up with a hole in your photo. That rarely looks good and so if we can avoid that we avoid that -- white clipping point. At the same time we want the photo to have appropriate highlights so we don't want the white clipping point too low either. A photo that doesn't reach black looks weak and insipid. Black is the foundation the photo is built upon. But too much black also creates empty holes in your photo. I like the astronomical analogy: black holes suck up everything around them and white holes go super-nova all over your photo. So we stay on top of a precision placement for those two elements.

The other adjustments you make to the photo can cause the white and black clipping points to shift. So as we work on the photo and for example use a gradient to darken the sky we go back to re-check. How many times doesn't matter. But unless our photo is one of those exceptions to the rule we want to at least start with the rule out the gate. You noted an interest in being able to push photos past the point of faithful realism. That's great, it's entirely appropriate for you to use manipulative processing as an expressive tool. But you'll find that you're ability to do that and to develop a style that fits what you want will in fact be enhanced by a methodology of first taking the photo to a standard condition of normalcy.

Your Instagram link (since you asked): In the past you used a set of canned filters you got off the Internet. I like the cooking analogy here: food from a can all tastes the same. It has too much salt as a preservative. It picks up a nasty metallic flavor from the can. It's all overcooked in the canning process. You know it when you taste it and you know it's a let down compared to what it could be. As the first screen of your Instagram page filled in for me my first reaction was to identify the canned filters you were using. Get the canned crap out of your recipes, learn to cook with fresh ingredients, and develop your own spice palette -- you eat better. Applies to our photos just like it applies to dinner.

Joe

Here's my version after following your instructions: Dropbox - DSC_0083.jpg

 

[darkblue-x]

I think you're a better photographer than you think. The exposures looked pretty good to me; actually I think this last version is getting overdone. I mean, it is nature, how much beyond what it actually looks like do you want to take it? how vibrant is the color in real life? Not that you can't make it less realistic and get creative, but it is a scene that is naturally occurring (well, much of it, not the barn itself! lol).

You might want to think about composition; you have more than one with a subject centered, which can work but often doesn't make for the best balance in a composition. Walk around some, change your vantage point, and see what other photos you can get from the same subject or scene. I also think the photo of the barn (great subject and nice photo of it) could be better if you could have gotten closer (although maybe that wasn't an option) to fill the frame more. I like the idea of cattails in the foreground, framing the barn, but as it is you've got one sticking up on one side and one that's dark lower right, and to me they end up being visually distracting. I'd think about if something adds to the photo, and if or where it should be in the frame. That's where you could change the vantage point and 'move' the cattails to where they look best as you're framing shots, where they look best in the composition(s).

Hope you keep enjoying taking photos, the more you practice the better you'll get. You seem on the right track.

(And I shoot all manual, most of the time; you may figure out what works best for you. I find it gives me the control I want over the camera settings.)

I appreciate the words. Perhaps I am a tough critic of myself.
I feel like I do often have the photographers eye for composition, perhaps some of the shots I had shown were more centered subjects but that's definitely something to consider. I didn't really overly notice the issue with the cattails being distracting. I think you're right...Now that I take a look at it. I took this photo from many different angles, perhaps another one would have been more suitable.

 

[darkblue-x]

This is why you're using LR. In the early years a raw converter allowed use to get a good overall conversion of the raw file but did not provide this kind of discreet local adjustment. This is the big change we've experienced in the last decade. The better raw converters are now giving us the ability to parametrically edit our raw files and make discreet local changes to tone response and color. That then often permits us to complete the edit we want to do entirely in the parametric editor -- big advantage.

Now go back to the Basics panel and check the white and black clipping points and reset them.

Joe

whites +24
blacks -23

Yep, I had whites 21 and blacks -29 -- photos need black!

Now you can go to File and Export a JPEG. Go to the Library module and find the photo. Right click on it and select Create Virtual Copy. All your edits will transfer. You can now create a different version -- maybe B&W if you like. Your raw file is never altered and you have total re-edit access to everything you did including as many versions as you'd like. This is best-in-class workflow. Only one other software app competes right now with LR in this regard and that's Capture One. ACDSee is getting close.

Your exposures were good. If you really take raw shooting seriously and work to get that under good control then your working definition of good exposure is a little different than if shooting JPEGs. Shooting JPEGs we expose to get normal brightness in the JPEG. Shooting raw we push to get maximum exposure to the sensor so that diffuse highlights are placed just below the sensor threshold. Being able to see the raw file histogram is important. We like RawDigger, but you can get a raw histogram from Raw Therapee for free. RawDigger is $25.00.

Joe

I can't thank you enough for walking me through all of that!

Couple of questions: how many times did we go back to readjust the black and whites? I had gone back the one time you had said and toggled the alt key to make the screen black on the whites, and then same for blacks but toggling just to get a spec of black. It left me at the same numbers I had mentioned earlier. Not sure if that may negatively affect the photo to a noticeable degree.

Your photo looks good. Next step process some of your other photos and post them up for critique. White and black clipping points look good, overall tone response and color look good. The clipping points: There are exceptions to all rules but there are also rules and the rules are really good guides. You never want to become slavish about the rules but you're lost and flailing around without them. A photo typically looks it's best when it takes full advantage of the available tonal range (white to black) that's why we fuss over the white and black clipping points. If you clip diffuse highlights (eg. white clouds) you lose color and detail and end up with a hole in your photo. That rarely looks good and so if we can avoid that we avoid that -- white clipping point. At the same time we want the photo to have appropriate highlights so we don't want the white clipping point too low either. A photo that doesn't reach black looks weak and insipid. Black is the foundation the photo is built upon. But too much black also creates empty holes in your photo. I like the astronomical analogy: black holes suck up everything around them and white holes go super-nova all over your photo. So we stay on top of a precision placement for those two elements.

The other adjustments you make to the photo can cause the white and black clipping points to shift. So as we work on the photo and for example use a gradient to darken the sky we go back to re-check. How many times doesn't matter. But unless our photo is one of those exceptions to the rule we want to at least start with the rule out the gate. You noted an interest in being able to push photos past the point of faithful realism. That's great, it's entirely appropriate for you to use manipulative processing as an expressive tool. But you'll find that you're ability to do that and to develop a style that fits what you want will in fact be enhanced by a methodology of first taking the photo to a standard condition of normalcy.

Your Instagram link (since you asked): In the past you used a set of canned filters you got off the Internet. I like the cooking analogy here: food from a can all tastes the same. It has too much salt as a preservative. It picks up a nasty metallic flavor from the can. It's all overcooked in the canning process. You know it when you taste it and you know it's a let down compared to what it could be. As the first screen of your Instagram page filled in for me my first reaction was to identify the canned filters you were using. Get the canned crap out of your recipes, learn to cook with fresh ingredients, and develop your own spice palette -- you eat better. Applies to our photos just like it applies to dinner.

Joe

Here's my version after following your instructions: Dropbox - DSC_0083.jpg

I definitely intend to follow your instructions and am registering what you are saying.
Lightroom editing has been done today on another photograph if you care to take a look, it's the same one I had given you of the dog.
Original: Dropbox - DSC_0068.nef
Edit: Dropbox - DSC_006822.jpg

 

[Ysarex]

I definitely intend to follow your instructions and am registering what you are saying.
Lightroom editing has been done today on another photograph if you care to take a look, it's the same one I had given you of the dog.
Original: Dropbox - DSC_0068.nef
Edit: Dropbox - DSC_006822.jpg

Start some new threads and get the rest of the board involved commenting on your images.

Here's my take on your dog photo:

Here's a link to the XMP file. LR saves your parametric edits in a text file -- you can open it and read through it. You can also use it to see what I did. Dupe your original NEF and put it in a separate temp folder. Then copy the XMP file to that folder. Open the NEF in LR and it will read the XMP file and show you all of my editing.

XMP file

Joe