Ming Thein's/Thom Hogan on mirrorless

Discussion in 'Mirrorless Cameras' started by Solarflare, Nov 6, 2015.

  1. Solarflare

    Solarflare No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Close, but no cigar: how to design mirrorless right

    The final sentence is really funny:
    So this is his list of requirements for the satisfyingly good mirrorless:
    Thats actually in quite some respects better than what you can get right now for DSLRs. Like - different grip sizes ? Awesome.

    Fast operation - can I say "duh" ? And half a second startup speed is my personal limit. Anything slower and you're getting in my way of getting the shot.

    Control locks - greatly appreciated. The Leica trick for exposure comp (first click activates, but does nothing otherwise) is a great idea, too. Also avoid buttons in too easy to accidentaly press areas (like the video record button with many Leicas).

    I want Auto-ISO like this:
    (a) configurable per lens
    (b) either fixed time or 1/focal length scale
    (c) second such scale for activated image stabilization
    (d) three quickly selectable modes: Full Auto-ISO, Auto-ISO but the shutter-speed-dial specifies a lower limit for shutter speed, Disabled Auto-ISO. Selecting T or B on the shutter speed dial will automatically disable Auto-ISO, as does selecting M on the mode dial (there is an A+S mode that doesnt disable Auto ISO).

    Fully articulated touchscreen fully used in the interface - hell yeah ! But all that can be done with touch screen needs to be doable with the regular four way button, too, though; just slower. Also allow to simply turn monitor completely around so its off.

    I primarily need good AF-C and if a mirrorless would manage that one, I would no longer need a DSLR. Thus I favor technology like Canon Dualpixel and/or Panasonic Bokeh-Analyzation. Combine that with great algorithms for tracking etc, please.

    There is no such thing as the perfect lens.

    There is no such thing as UHS-III, the fastest is UHS-II right now. Could also use one of these faster standards, like XQD. Definitely need two card slots with the ability to use the second as backup.

    I do ABSOLUTELY NOT want a battery solution like in the Leica T and SL. Thats poor for storing batteries and leads to all kinds of other problems.

    I'm missing WiFi in this list. Password protected and with all whisles and bells, like remote control, backup to the smartphone, automatic upload into the internet the moment I press the shutter release etc.


     
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  2. Solarflare

    Solarflare No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    And here comes Thom Hogans article:

    How To Decide Between Systems

    This time the first sentence is really funny.

    I want mirrorless because:

    1. Image Quality. The shorter flange distance allows simpler, cheaper and higher quality optics. for wide angles. Since wide angles are harder to get right than telephoto, this is kind of a huge deal. Also no mirror slap also helps IQ.

    2. New possibilities for autofocus. Especially the expanded autofocus area and the lack of a need for calibration.

    3. The possibilities of having an EVF. Better WYSIWYG abilities, and many electronic technologies to help nailing the perfect shot: Focus Peaking, moveable Magnification/Digital Split Screen, Zebras, False Color, Life Histogram, etc.

    4. Price. A mirrorless doesnt have the mirror box, which makes the camera drastically simpler and thus cheaper to produce and more robust.

    5. Smaller size, especially for larger sensors. The mirror box of a Pentax 645D or 645z for example is really big and not transportable for me. A medium format 44x33mm system with prime lenses could be done really small. Wide angle lenses would also shrink in size.
     
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  3. Ysarex

    Ysarex Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    "The ability to zoom a raw image without having to also write a JPEG."

    Huh? What is this asking for?

    Joe
     
  4. Ido

    Ido No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    I think some cameras don't give you a real 1:1 view when you zoom into that level if you choose to only save a Raw file; you have to select Raw + JPEG for that. He pointed that out in one of his reviews—I think it was a Leica.
     
  5. Solarflare

    Solarflare No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Yes, Leica doesnt offer the option to only write a RAW file. You can shoot JPEG (not adviseable because Leica isnt that great with JPEGs) or RAW+JPEG.
     
  6. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Ming opens his article with a nine-camera photo gallery listing the problems each camera had in the captions under each small photo: "Limited sensor resolution; overambitious image quality and fragile feel;too many steps to get shooting;fixed lens; great UI with terrible ergonomics; classical controls don't work for digital,senor limits;ergonomic and workflow challenges; IQ limitations from senor size;needed two years to fix FW (firmware)."

    He of course, forgot crappy battery life. Like the new Sony A7r Mark II, the one the dPreview guy used at a recent Seahawks game, the camera which he mentioned he needed, "three fully charged batteries" with in order to get through the game, and shooting only 700 photos. Wow....that is SUCKY battery life from a $3,198 camera aimed at "serious" users!Keeping up with the big boys? Shooting pro sports with the Sony a7R II

    Ming's article is a pretty good overview, and it is in itself, a good clue as to why mirrorless cameras have not been able to really displace d-slr cameras, and why Canon and Nikon are still dominating the camera business with their "old-school" cameras, cameras which have been refined from designs and ideas initially premiered in the mid-1980's.

    Hogan's article is basically a listing of the compromises/problem areas that each company's mirrorless cameras are suffering from, like low pixel count and sensor technology issues for Panasonic, Olympus, and Fuji; Fuji's dreadful video performance; Nikon CX system's problems with lenses, feature set, and build quality (Nikon 1=under-featured, built poorly, overpriced); and in general, just a lot of serious, fundamental issues that the mirrorless camera makers have, still.

    Ehhhhh....it's pretty clear that both those guys see a LOT of problems with mirrorless cameras, from each and every manufacturer. I looked at the new Leica SL image quality results on dPreview early this week. Disappointing, and not up to the current 24MP performance of a Nikon OR a Sony using a 24MP Exmor sensor. The D610 is a better imager than a $7,500 Leica. Wow.
     
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  7. Braineack

    Braineack Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    I bought my first mirrorless today. my "needs" list wasnt anything like theirs.

    it was:
    IQ
    decent AF speed/accuracy
    ease of use (so I can hand to a stanger and finally have pictures with my wife)
    size (to be able to take to place I'd rather not bring/deal with my dslr)
    in-body stability (to keep lenses small and ablility to adapt others)
     
  8. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    iPhone 6S, right?
     
  9. Braineack

    Braineack Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Ha, no. The sony a6000.

    Have you seen the screen - flash selfie camera of the iphone? So pathedic.

    using tapatalk.
     
  10. Solarflare

    Solarflare No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    I guess this fits into this thread well:

    Steve Huff: Why Mirrorless ? Five Reasons.
    1. Usually because the sensor is smaller, though. They have some size advantage potential, but really only Leica has fully realized that.
    2. Wait, what ? At best they are getting good now (Micro Four Thirds, Fuji X). Not yet as good as DSLRs, though.
    3. Okay, the EVF has some special functionality ... otherwise I dont understand this argument, either.
    4. More or less. With real rangefinder glas, theres often issues. With SLR glas, well that tends to be quite an unbalanced construct. Plus of course non-native lenses are rather primitive to use - for example there is no automatic aperture.
    5. They mostly have to progress because they're so far behind. Flash support for example. Other than that ? Maybe 4K video. And Fuji X apparently has good WiFi.

    Its also funny that Steve Huff keeps dizzing the only mirrorless system I would consider: Fuji X.
     
  11. Braineack

    Braineack Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    I'll give him #1 and #5.
     
  12. beagle100

    beagle100 No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    yes, smaller, lighter, cheaper, ability to use 3rd party lenses
    someday DSLR's will be gone and there will be only mirrorless
    www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless
     

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