Missed opportunity

[The_Traveler]

I have no idea why some of the more experienced people choose to post pictures - or not to.

Perhaps it's a self-image issue. I do notice that many of these 'more experienced' people, when they do post, seem to want to maintain their image by only posting stuff well within their area of competence - and rarely stuff that can be critiqued in any meaningful way. Thus their pictures, however good technically, are artistically boring to tears - nothing I would look at unless there was a calendar below it.

To my way of thinking that is a real loss, both to them and to the less experienced photographers. I would like to see people shooting and posting out of their comfort zone, forsaking some of the comfort of being good at something to try to expand their artistic vision. That provides an example for the less experienced that art is always meant to progress and it also gives people a chance at some c/c that goes beyond the very basic stuff, a chance to look at the artistic vision and make comments about them, rather than being stuck in the critically low-rent areas of sharpnes, focus, dof and wb.

I try to post pictures routinely for those two reasons: to keep beyond my comfort areas - at least in areas that interest me - but trying to expand my vision (and that has nothing to do with skill) and to give people whom I have criticized a fair chance at me.

I am an unremitting critic, trying to say exactly what I think out of respect for the art, however poorly practiced.

It is a bit disappointing that people don't take advantage of the opportunity either to work harder and post differently or to look at what gets posted and learn about critiquing by actually doing some serious looking and talking about it.

Why would I post pictures here?
What does it get me?
What good does it do others if they don't use what I post - however good or poor - as an exercise for their critical sense?

 

[480sparky]

I don't post 'out of my comfort zone' for C&C because I already know what the issues are. What I lack is the intuitive experience needed to see those issues before the shutter clicks. Portraiture, for instance. Although I used to do this professionally, I gave up the craft years ago and have become totally rusty with it. Although I'm sure many of the basics still hold, what is demanded by the paying public is simply beyond my abilities today.

So instead of trying to improve on that aspect of photography, I just accept the fact that I'm as good as I'm ever going to get, and I also simply do not have the drive and ambition to get better. I'll stick to candids, thank you.

I have been repeatedly asked to do commission work, especially by those who know I have a 'home studio'. I politely refuse.

 

[The_Traveler]

Sparky, you're talking about skills, I'm talking about photography as expression.

I couldn't give less of a crap about well-staged, well-lighted, plastic images that all look the same. Just swap out the heads.
I know people can actually try to see things, think about things and show what they've seen, instead they get caught up in pixels and wb and sharpness and what do I buy now. This is, should be, art not Home Depot for cameras.

I can't image any artist who paints on canvas perseverating about the kind of stretchers except as a method to make his images work better.
It is now wonder that photography gets little shrift from all the jerks who think the camera does it all.
For many/most, the camera does do it all with damn little support from the photographer.

 

[480sparky]

Sparky, you're talking about skills, I'm talking about photography as expression.
.........

You need the skills to create the expression. I doubt many photographers do well using blind luck.

I am reminded of the M*A*S*H scene (Season 8, Episode 19, Morale Victory) where Maj. Winchester (David Ogden Stiers) amputates the right hand of a concert pianist. The soldier thinks his life is over. Winchester orders sheet music designed for just the left hand and explains, "Don't you see? Your hand may be stilled, but your gift cannot be silenced if you refuse to let it be. The gift does not lie in your hands. I have hands, David. Hands that can make a scalpel sing. More than anything in my life I wanted to play, but I do not have the gift. I can play the notes, but I cannot make the music. You have performed Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Chopin. Even if you never do so again, you've already known a joy that I will never know as long as I live. Because the true gift is in your head and in your heart and in your soul. Now you can shut it off forever, or you can find new ways to share your gift with the world - through the baton, the classroom, or the pen. As to these works, they're for you, because you and the piano will always be as one."

In some areas, I just do not have 'the gift'.

 

[fjrabon]

I guess in a similar vein I've never understood the advice some posters give to 'only post your best for C&C'

What I tend to post here 99% of the time are shots that I think have potential, but are lacking something that I can't quite put my finger on that keeps them from being exceptional images. Now, I think this tends to mean that my photos don't get a whole lot of commentary, because there usually aren't very obvious flaws (which is what TPF is best at with C&C) and they arent stunning enough to get a lot of attaboys. I rarely post work I'm completely happy with (or at least as close as I get to completely happy with a picture) and I rarely post something I hate. In the former case, usually any C&C would just be about matters of taste that I've already made up my mind about, and in the latter, well, I can spot what's wrong in images that I hate most of the time. So, while I don't get a whole lot of comments on my photos, what I do get tends to maybe be more helpful for my growth.

 

[PlanetStarbucks]

Why shouldn't vanity be the reason to post an image? I know the pure artist's mantra is to create without a care for what other people think. Surely that attitude is essential in the process of creation, but I recognize that your work is always going to be judged by other people. Therefore, you have to care what people think of your work. I think that even the best photographers in the world do themselves a disservice if they never take a heat check on their own creation.

 

[The_Traveler]

Why shouldn't vanity be the reason to post an image? I know the pure artist's mantra is to create without a care for what other people think. Surely that attitude is essential in the process of creation, but I recognize that your work is always going to be judged by other people. Therefore, you have to care what people think of your work. I think that even the best photographers in the world do themselves a disservice if they never take a heat check on their own creation.

Vanity has nothing to do with it.
I like being praised as much or more than anyone.
But I know, more than anything else, that I want to create art.
I will almost certainly fail but that is what I need to do.
And the moment I start only doing easy stuff is when I cheat my own effort.

I post here for two reasons: First, to elicit comments to see if what I am doing is 'working' and I am succeeding a bit.
Second, I think I am working at a different level/purpose than many of teh people here and I think it is fair to give people a shot at my crude tries as I work.
I can take pictures of easy things all day and I wouldn't get anything out of doing it and the viewers would get little out of looking at it.

So when I try to do something and people just don't take the opportunity to quiz me on why I'm doing it that way, I lose the interaction and so do they.
Not that I'm terrific or great or whatever, but I am trying to do something and it is a benefit for me to get interaction and it is good for a newer photographer to try to see how other people think.

 

[panblue]

Quality thread. Interesting discussion.

 

[pixmedic]

Different people post photos here for different reasons. With different styles, different skill levels, and different expectations. Why would any of the reasons someone posts here be wrong? Isn't the point for people to post here for their own reasons, not someone elses?

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Different people post photos here for different reasons. With different styles, different skill levels, and different expectations. Why would any of the reasons someone posts here be wrong? Isn't the point for people to post here for their own reasons, not someone elses?

Because they are not doing it right!

 

[pixmedic]

Different people post photos here for different reasons. With different styles, different skill levels, and different expectations. Why would any of the reasons someone posts here be wrong? Isn't the point for people to post here for their own reasons, not someone elses?

Because they are not doing it right!

Aparantly not. I never realized there was a wrong reason to post here.

 

[rexbobcat]

I find that with me, personally, there is a thin line between being too generic and too pretentious.

Now I'm not saying that all of my images meet my own criteria for an amazing image. I'm still in the stage of being ecstatic when I can get a photo looking technically how I saw it in my head, event if the photo is super cliche.

Like, I understand posting perfectly lit, perfectly composed, generic photos of children and models in the studio etc...but at the same time I don't usually comment on those photos because they're trite and boring. The whole essence of the photo hinges on the physical subject.

But on the same token, if a photo is too "artsy" or too post-modern, I roll my eyes. The metaphorical content of the image outweighs what the subject shows.

There has to be just the right mixture of content to subject for me to really say "THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE IMAGE. I feel the need to express my honest opinion."

(And I have met my quota for artsy-fartsy meta posts for the week. Yayyyyy)

 

[The_Traveler]

Different people post photos here for different reasons. With different styles, different skill levels, and different expectations. Why would any of the reasons someone posts here be wrong? Isn't the point for people to post here for their own reasons, not someone elses?

Because they are not doing it right!

Aparantly not. I never realized there was a wrong reason to post here.

I didn't say that.
I said I wish more people would post more work that actually show something beyond what they always post and that more people would try to C/C on a higher level than the technical stuff.

Of course that gives Bitter a chance to be snarky so he is happy.

 

[Overread]

I didn't say that.
I said I wish more people would post more work that actually show something beyond what they always post and that more people would try to C/C on a higher level than the technical stuff.

Eh but experimentation is not something everyone goes for and even if they do and it goes wrong its often just for fun so not something they often feel the need to share and work toward perfecting the talent of. Most people get into photography with an interest within specific areas (or develop said interests) so they will, when learning, try to focus upon those areas. The more established meanwhile just have their comfort zones and do varying amounts of experimentation outside of them depending on the person. Some people do lots and others very little.


As for critique beyond technical - well you'll have to hunt around for that. Sadly most here is technical because most posting for education are just learning the ropes. For some reason we get far fewer advanced level photographers having their work critiqued. I guess its a problem that once you're at a certain level people assume that what you show them is what you fully intended.

Add to that the problem that most people have no education in the arts what so ever so they've not built up a series of understandings to apply to understand what they are seeing from a technical artistic perspective (generally they get as far as rule of 3rds).

 

[The_Traveler]

I guess its a problem that once you're at a certain level people assume that what you show them is what you fully intended.

I think the best learning tool is to look at a picture and try to figure out why you like or - or don't.
That's what builds up one's personal understanding of composition and art in a way that is more more integrated with your 'responses' than just reading about Rules.

The Rules or Guidelines are attempts to codify simply how the largest proportion of people respond to certain arrangements of the elements in a picture.

It's the simply part that takes a lot of nuance out.