motcon wrongly closes my critique thread.

[newrmdmike]

so heres what i messaged him . . .

"who are you to decide if that work is complete or not?

i posted it AS a completed work, i merely stated that since its not a print i chose to not worry about it.

based on your reasoning for closing MY thread anything with something you see as a fixable flaw should be a closed topic.

unlock my thread. what you did here and on another thread will lose members, including me."


DIGITAL REPRESENTATIONS MAY VARY FROM PRINTS. THATS NOT GROUNDS TO CLOSE A THREAD ON.


as you can see by the fact i actually posted this as a seperate thread i am pi**ed. i think admins and mods or whatever need to be careful about the threads they close, or at least in this situation leave that open for debate. MOTCON also did this to another member (who is new here) i'll go find that thread and repost here.

 

[newrmdmike]

here was his response

"did you not clearly state that it isn't a completed image? it's something that you can fix later? in that case, it isn't finished, correct?"

and here is mine

"no, i did not state it isn't a completed image, i stated that its an issue with a digital representation of a film work, and that that is not an issue in print. are you going to close critique threads everytime someone acknowledges there is an issue with what someone sees here?"

 

[newrmdmike]

heres where he did it in another thread
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85808

with a new member, instead of saying here let me move your thread, and heres why i'm moving it, please do this in the future. he said, oop, no picture, wrong section, thread locked.

does anyone else see a problem with this?

 

[Puscas]

First of all: you've posted this in the wrong forum....:mrgreen:
Sorry, couldn't help it: seeing this in the Off Topic seems a bit strange, but I get your point. I'm not commenting on the first part of your question, because that's probably a definition issue and I'm not good at that. But I agree that in the second case, the post could have been moved.
Maybe everyone has to get used to the new critique-forums?




pascal

 

[newrmdmike]

motcon:

" no need to be confrontational. wow.

i'm closing threads when people readily admit that it isn't a finished image when the guidelines clearly state that the forum is for finished images only.

by your own admission, the final print would be the result of a dark room print.

what am i missing here?"


newrmdmike
"i didn't say its not a finished image. while the final print will be a dark room print, a digital reproduction of it, or a scan will be all that anyone here will ever see. digital reproductions are NEVER the exact same as the original print."


so, are digital representations of our film work not allowed in the critique forum?

 

[newrmdmike]

i'm not changing anything about the image i posted. its complete. open the critique thread back up.

the difference will be in a physical print. that doesn't mean i'm not satisfied with my digital representation, my digital representation is complete.

 

[newrmdmike]

your right, maybe this thread should be in feedback and suggestions. didn't think that one through, maybe a mod will move it for me? but first also realize that 4 people are viewing feedback and suggestions, while 93 people are viewing off topic chat.

 

[newrmdmike]

motcon"
do us both a favor. next time you post an image, don't state that you'll fix the issues in the darkroom. that clearly means that it isn't a final print. you are just looking for general feedback.

that said, let's do this.

i'm going to delete the entire thread. post a new thread with the image without that statement.

deal?"

"no, no deal, my statement doesn't nullify it being a complete digital representation of my work. i'm not just looking for general feedback, i'm saying that in the midtones they will be different than in print. the "different" in print, will be that it looks better, prints usually do look better than digital representations though don't they? how about you unlock the thread, and i'll edit my post, not you. and in my edit, i'll make it clear as i have in this message that what you see is as close to the print as its gonna get.

what happens when someone gives someone a critique and they take note of something, does the thread close? if i say "that could be cropped a little tighter" and they respond "yes it could be" are you going to close the thread instead of letting the critique go on?"

motcon
"i think we are on different wavelengths here. what you are suggesting is that your scan will be printed later, in a final state. that scan isn't a final image.

critiques of final images go on forever. feedback on 'works in progress' will not.

i'll unlock it, but just a head's up; word it carefully. i'm not the one you have to worry about - the other mods are on this as well. i just happen to be on tonight."

newrmdmike
"thank you for unlocking the thread.
yes, i'm suggesting the negative will be printed later, but the scan is what i have to work with on the computer, so its the most final it will get.
i've made my edit to the thread. i've made such a big huff because we need to know how to handle this, while i may have made it look like its incomplete, its only that what people see here is different from whats going to be on paper. the print will be the final state, but i can't show a print. i can only show a scan.

now how about one of those famous motcon critiques?"

so we may have resolved THIS, but what happens in the future under these circumstances?

does it matter if the final print isn't done when the scan from before is whats going to be used to represent the work digitally? or do we just need to be super careful how we word things?

 

[lostprophet]

Well I'm glad I never post any threads in the critique forum.

I have to say I'm on your side newrmdmike, in my mind a thread should only be locked if people start having petty arguments in it.


If I was to post an image in the critique forum, it would mean I was looking for ways to improve that image. Possibly I would act upon the comments, say for example, crop it as someone had mentioned. Therefore the image I posted wouldn't of been a 'finished' image.

Personally speaking, if I have what I consider a 'finished' image I will post it in the other galleries, landscape/nature or general.
If I have an image that I consider 'unfinished' because I need help with it then I would post it in the critique section and maybe act upon the critique I receive from other members, isn't that the purpose of critique, to learn?

 

[LaFoto]

Well, Andy, as you will see upon closer inspection, Critique no longer is what it still was yesterday. The Critique Section is ALL new and now divided into two parts, one for finished work and one for work in progress. Mike posted his post in the "finished work" part but motcon mistook it for "work in progress" cause Mike mentioned that the print would still need to be made, what we saw here was the scanned negative only.
Clear case of misunderstanding, by the look of it.
One that resolved itself. Good.

 

[Meysha]

Could someone please explain to me the use of a critique if you're not supposed to then take that critique on?

 

[newrmdmike]

well, for now he hasn't said you can't take critiques on, we have merely suggested that, and not yet received confirmation from him or anyone on that committee. also, this is the only instance where that problem has occurred. the way i had made it seem on my image in the critique thread was "oh yeah i'll take care of that later"(really it was an issue of digital scans representing a film/organic finished work and whether or not they can be used as a final product) and it nullifying the persons critique. while that wasn't what i meant in my thread, it certainly brings up a good point or whether or not people should be able to be like "yeah i'll do that later, what else" and have submitted their photo for critique when it wasn't really a finished product.

i'm sure this will be clarified to us in the future. i agree that critiques can go further if you've submitted a finished product to the best of your ability. however, be careful that you don't say "yes i agree i should change that" because your work may no longer be considered finished.

 

[newrmdmike]

so,

if you choose to accept a critique someone gave does the thread die?

my answer:so far i'm not sure, the thread may or may not die, but im guessing it dies. if you want the critiques to keep coming keep your mouth shut about accepting their advice for your photo and your thread will live on.

can a digital representation of an organic work be passable as a finished product? and does it matter if a finished organic work (print)is in existance if the digital data (film scan) has already been obtained?

i believe so, as my critique thread is now open again.

 

[newrmdmike]

i also believe though that if this is going to be discussed in public that it should be moved to a new thread seperate from the messages etc that are posted above, as it may lead to unfair bias.

 

[motcon]

i stand by my informed initial decision as it was clear by your statements that you weren't finished with the image.

call it a misunderstanding. call it what you will. the area is for finished work only.

everything in the personal messages states the above position very clearly.

do keep in mind...the personal message system is meant to be just that; personal. anyone who decides to air personal messages in public will simply be ignored by me. they will have to appeal to someone else.

all said and done, we came to an agreement, so the thread was opened.