music events in low light

[00digitalsniper]

I would like some tips to improve my photos.

some of the things I cant do...
use a flash
use a tripod

I am usually off stage and in low light outdoor evening events where the sun is setting fast. I would like to improve on what seems to be a fog on my images. I can remove it in post, but truthfully I am not a post type person, I love to shoot but hate to process. I do have some image blur on occasion but that is all due to me, I would also like any tips to improve this.

I shoot on M and with auto ISO for the most part due to the quick light changes in the sky and on stage and use spot metering. these are not full time settings but what I seem to use most often.

I have a D6 and a T5i I use the 24-70 and the 70-200 f2.8 lenses both with polarizing filters.

thanks for any advice you can give.


hope I didn't shrink the size to much...

 

[weepete]

Don't use spot metering. Unless of course the lighing is consistant and you are averaging out the scene placing the readings where you want them to go on your histogram. I find either CWA (which tends to be my preference for that kind of shooting) or partial gives a more consistant result.

Also if you post an example image we might be able to give you better advice to solve a spesific problem you are having.

 

[bratkinson]

With the dropping light levels, you'll need to crank up your ISO speeds to maintain shutter speeds fast enough to stop action...1/160th and faster has been my experience for indoor shots with people in them. I don't know what the practical limits are on your cameras ISO speeds before the noise gets worse than easily correctable in post. Of course, shooting in the f2.8 to f3.5 range is where most of your shots will have to be, resulting in DOF considerations.

As for the 'fogged' images, either they are being overexposed or you are shooting directly into a light source. Perhaps the setting sun is more in front of you than behind you. Regardless, start looking at the histographs as you take your shots. That will immediately tell you if it's an overexposure problem.

 

[00digitalsniper]

weepete,
I was using spot to make the faces turn out the best and forget what was happening with the rest but will give CWA a go and see if that helps.

bratkinson,
I do tend to keep my shutter as high as I can depending on the light situation I aim for 200+
the ISO on my cameras can do quite well without a lot of noise but like I said I tend to leave it on auto as the light changes quite rapidly. with the setting sun and stage lights I would constantly be raising and lowering the ISO to get a better image and by the time I change it the light has changed again.



I have recently been watching my histogram and learning to read it better rather than trying to read the image on the small camera display. I find that the camera screen never shows you what you are truly getting, and you don't find out till you put it on a big screen.

 

[Mr. Innuendo]

You need to get a handle on your ISO.

First, get out of Auto ISO. Auto ISO is going to give you what the camera wants in a happy, perfect world and, as you're probably aware, a concert environment is not generally considered a happy, perfect world for a photographer. Make the camera use what you want it to use.

I shoot with a Canon 6D, which performs ridiculously well under ridiculously high ISO's. I've shot entire shows at an ISO of 20000 (certainly not the norm) and, even before any noise reduction, the resulting images are perfectly usable. Prior to the 6D, I was shooting with the 5D at an ISO of 1600, and I was still coming away with images which were perfectly acceptable.

Now, bear in mind that this is with the "pro" lighting found in actual concert venues as opposed to night clubs and bars. I don't even take my camera to those venues anymore; it's too damn frustrating.

I also pay exactly no mind to the histogram. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. I don't care what it tells me. I care how the image looks when I review it. If it doesn't look good to me, I know how to fix it.

The glass is good; those are my two concert lenses, as well, but why do you have polarizors on them? There's no need for them. I can't speak as to what that impact might be, as I've never used a polarizor in a concert setting, but seeing as they're between your subject and your sensor, they are going to have an affect on your images.

If you can, please post some examples of your work. It'll be much easier to offer advice and assistance if we know exactly what you're referring to.

 

[00digitalsniper]

Mr. Innuendo,

So, early on I was using an ISO setting but found that a lot of my images were garbage and could not be fixed to a descent standard in post that is why I went to auto and it did help out quite a lot, with that said of course I still have bad images but am able to help them out in post (I have also switched to RAW).

With regards to the filter it is what I chose to put on for the summer daytime outdoor events to help with the light glare and as a protector for the lens. I never remove them, I have had to replace the filters a couple times and it its much better than replacing or fixing a lens (the filters I use are life time guarantee and can replace them for free no matter what).

as for posting my images it would take some time as they are all to large to post and I don't have them setup to link to at this time.

I am just going into my second season of photography with a big lag in the cold Edmonton winter. So I have about 8 months of full on almost daily shooting. the things I have been able to put out the client loves but I want to improve and take over the world! or maybe just my city.

thanks all for the suggestions...

 

[weepete]

weepete,
I was using spot to make the faces turn out the best and forget what was happening with the rest but will give CWA a go and see if that helps.

bratkinson,
I do tend to keep my shutter as high as I can depending on the light situation I aim for 200+
the ISO on my cameras can do quite well without a lot of noise but like I said I tend to leave it on auto as the light changes quite rapidly. with the setting sun and stage lights I would constantly be raising and lowering the ISO to get a better image and by the time I change it the light has changed again.



I have recently been watching my histogram and learning to read it better rather than trying to read the image on the small camera display. I find that the camera screen never shows you what you are truly getting, and you don't find out till you put it on a big screen.

 

[Gary A.]

I shoot a lot of outdoor concerts and theatre under all lighting conditions. I crank up the ISO to facilitate handholding, I engage IS, I use rear button focus and I Spot meter. In tricky lighting, auto-anything can kill you. With your image above, if you read off the face with the spot meter and not hold that reading ... when you reframe the image the meter will be reading off the white shirt/jacket.

Metering is a key. In order to maximize the usefulness of spot metering you have to understand how a meter works ... that 18% medium gray stuff. I found that careful metering can lower your ISO. In a nutshell, the meter will read what it reads and turns it into a medium gray. So if the meter is reading a white wall, you center the needle, take a snap, perform no adjustments in post ... make a 8x10 ... that print will be medium gray. If you meter a black wall, you center the needle, take a snap, perform no adjustments in post ... make a 8x10 ... that print will be medium gray. You need to understand what you are metering and how to adjust the camera to reflect that the meter only reads medium gray. After you mastered spot metering and said adjustments there is nothing you can't shoot and/or know what adjustments are required both in the camera and in post to give you a pleasing image.

Gary

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[vintagesnaps]

As you're losing light late in the day you probably need to keep adjusting your settings, and I agree that Auto may not be the best option. You'll probably need to keep raising the ISO and going with a slower shutter speed as the light changes. I usually don't like to go slower than 1/60 but it depends on what you can do hand held.

I agree too about not using a polarizer once the sun's going down and you're losing light. Those block some wavelengths of light, the ones I think that make us squint because they're harder to see. The polarizer is probably cutting the light too much coming into the camera.

Since a camera's recording light, as you lose light in the evening it challenges what a camera can do (unless a photographer wants to set up and do a long exposure). If/when stage lights come on it would probably be necessary to make adjustments for that too as the light changes.

 

[Mr. Innuendo]

With regards to the filter it is what I chose to put on for the summer daytime outdoor events to help with the light glare and as a protector for the lens. I never remove them, I have had to replace the filters a couple times and it its much better than replacing or fixing a lens (the filters I use are life time guarantee and can replace them for free no matter what).

Huh.

I haven't left a filter on any of my lenses in years, and I've shot in some pretty extreme conditions. Now, if I put a filter on a lens, it's there for as long as I need it there for the shot, and then it comes off. I've never had to replace or repair a lens.

Try removing the filters. I'm not saying it's going to definitely help your images, but it sure as Hell won't hurt.

as for posting my images it would take some time as they are all to large to post and I don't have them setup to link to at this time.

An honest question: Do you not know how to resize a photo?

It's next to impossible for anyone to make solid suggestions without being able to see what the actual issue is. The way you're explaining it might mean different things to different people, resulting in very different advice for different problems. It doesn't take long to resize a photo. If you're sincerely seeking advice, you should do that.

 

[00digitalsniper]

I have made notes of all of your suggestions and am going to try them out. back button focus looks like I will have to practice at as its a new way to shoot but shouldn't be much of an issue and I still have a couple months before events start-up.

with regards to filters I often do a lot of moving around in crowds and leave the lens caps off so I would still like that extra layer of protection. this is also another reason why I have my lens hoods on most of the time. if I remove the polarized filters I may still add another clear protection filter. filters are cheep compared to lenses... a story on that... I had a lady bump into me when I had one camera to my face and the other on the shoulder. her rock hard designer bag was enough to crack the filter and push it out of the ring. replacement filter FREE, lens safe. who knows if there was no filter.

 

[Gary A.]

Good luck. Rear button focus will take some practice to master. You have the muscle memory thing going ... makes it hard to change.

 

[Dave442]

I would also drop the CPL filters from those lenses. I would not want to be trying to dial in a polarizing setting I liked during a concert, probably whatever setting I made would change too quickly with the lights and then I would no longer be seeing any advantage to using the filter and would have the disadvantage of the stop or two of lost light that could lead to motion blur.

Not sure how the Canons work on M with Auto ISO, I had not tried it with my Nikons until I recently found here that I could dial in some exposure compensation to offset the Auto ISO. However, I have only tried this where the light is not changing so fast as in a concert.
At concerts I generally set the ISO so I have some leeway on the shutter speed and do not have to move ISO up again until it is dark out, so just one or two changes of ISO during the show.

Back button focus can help, especially as it sounds like you are bumping into people.