Need advice on beginning first year

[beagle100]

the photography business is not like being a dentist, engineer, architect, etc. Photographers are going out of business because (shocking news !) everyone now has a camera !

Mmmmmm... for the most part, photographers aren't going out of business. Fauxtographers (who never should have been in business to begin with) are going out of business.

Mmmmm.... then it's simply separating the Fauxtographers from the Real Photographers
Caveat Emptor !

 

[kitkatdubs]

Are my prices too high? I live in the Bay Area so I really feel like most photographers that are starting out, that I know of, are around 350-400 starting out. Other more experienced photographers start at about 800 for a family session. I would like to get business just not sure where to start on how to do that.

 

[tirediron]

Are my prices too high? I live in the Bay Area so I really feel like most photographers that are starting out, that I know of, are around 350-400 starting out. Other more experienced photographers start at about 800 for a family session. I would like to get business just not sure where to start on how to do that.

This post more than anything tells me that you are not ready to start a business. Your prices are what your prices need to be. They are not arbitrary numbers that you guess at, they at definite values based on set calculations. What I would suggest is that you step back from the photography and spend a little time on the business.

Learn what a business plan is, and how to draft one, then do it. Determine what your prices must be (essentially hard costs + soft costs + salary / number of sessions = prices) and go from there. There's nothing wrong with adjusting your prices slightly to match the market, but you need to know where you stand first. Most "photographers" asking $150 for "one hour session all edited images on a CD" are actually losing money, even though they feel they're rich when they put that $150 in their pocket.

 

[kitkatdubs]

Are my prices too high? I live in the Bay Area so I really feel like most photographers that are starting out, that I know of, are around 350-400 starting out. Other more experienced photographers start at about 800 for a family session. I would like to get business just not sure where to start on how to do that.

This post more than anything tells me that you are not ready to start a business. Your prices are what your prices need to be. They are not arbitrary numbers that you guess at, they at definite values based on set calculations. What I would suggest is that you step back from the photography and spend a little time on the business.

Learn what a business plan is, and how to draft one, then do it. Determine what your prices must be (essentially hard costs + soft costs + salary / number of sessions = prices) and go from there. There's nothing wrong with adjusting your prices slightly to match the market, but you need to know where you stand first. Most "photographers" asking $150 for "one hour session all edited images on a CD" are actually losing money, even though they feel they're rich when they put that $150 in their pocket.

Can you help me figure out this calculation?

 

[tirediron]

Basically, you need to take all of your hard costs for one month (A hard cost is anything where you actually lay money for that specific item), so insurance, electricity, gas, software subscriptions, professional fees, cell phone & Internet bills, and add those to your soft costs (soft costs are things like money put aside for equipment replacement and anything else where there isn't a specific cost attached to it), and total those up. That's how much money your business will cost you to run each month. Now you need to add your salary into it and you have the amount of money that your business needs to bring in each month. We'll assume that total is $4000. Now figure out how many sessions a month you want to shoot - let's pick 8 as a nice easy number with which to work. That means every session has to bring in $500 AT LEAST. If you set your session fee at say $200 for a one-hour session, that means you need to push $300 worth of product from that session. Now it's simply a matter of looking at your costs for product and determining an average cost to get that $300. Don't forget to price digital files at a point where it makes prints look attractive. You want to sell prints and other product, NOT digital files.

 

[kitkatdubs]

Basically, you need to take all of your hard costs for one month (A hard cost is anything where you actually lay money for that specific item), so insurance, electricity, gas, software subscriptions, professional fees, cell phone & Internet bills, and add those to your soft costs (soft costs are things like money put aside for equipment replacement and anything else where there isn't a specific cost attached to it), and total those up. That's how much money your business will cost you to run each month. Now you need to add your salary into it and you have the amount of money that your business needs to bring in each month. We'll assume that total is $4000. Now figure out how many sessions a month you want to shoot - let's pick 8 as a nice easy number with which to work. That means every session has to bring in $500 AT LEAST. If you set your session fee at say $200 for a one-hour session, that means you need to push $300 worth of product from that session. Now it's simply a matter of looking at your costs for product and determining an average cost to get that $300. Don't forget to price digital files at a point where it makes prints look attractive. You want to sell prints and other product, NOT digital files.

To be completely honest, I do not want to do IPS. Nor do I want to sell products (at least at this point.) I just want to do a flat fee for a session which will include 20-25 digitals. I think the reason being for this is b/c in the past as a customer to a photographer, I was always steered away from photographers that only offered prints b/c I #1 didn't have the money to pay for all these prints so then I couldn't get the photos taken #2 I do not like sales. I want to make it affordable for people to have photos done for their family and not be spending $1000's of dollars in an already expensive area (I live in San Fran)

 

[tirediron]

Unfortunately that's not really a viable model for a business. I would guess that you are probably competing with with at least 25,000 other people trying to do the same thing within a 10 mile radius. There's also a much more fundamental issue relating to this school of thought. The purpose of photography (fine-art photography aside) is to preserve memories. How often do you look at those 10,000 digital files on your computer? How easy is it for you to show off that great photo?

A story that I tell my clients is my own situation: Growing up in the 70s, my mother was the family photographer. She had the Kodak Instamatic in her purse and whipped it out for every event. There are hundreds, if not thousands of images of my brothers, my father, myself and all the other relatives. I have one okay print of my mother (who died 16 years ago). I wish she'd had some professional family photos done. It would be a nice memory to have.

Yes, prints are expensive, and in-person sales aren't too everyone's taste, but if you actually want to make a business....

 

[vintagesnaps]

I think you really need to give some thought to what John's telling you; he knows what he's talking about.

American Society of Media Photographers and PPA have info. for photographers about contracts, licensing, etc. But if you don't want to price competitively or offer prints etc. I'm not sure how that's gong to work. I think it depends somewhat on where you live how likely it is that a photography business is going to work out. In my area media in general was hit hard with jobs disappearing, and the college near me has photography as one of its few mandatory dual majors (with business as the other recommended major) so those students will be able to find jobs.

As far as working for free, no matter what you call it it's doing work without getting paid, and I just think there's a limit to it - I've done sports, took photos for marketing for a local team, and gave their booster club pictures at no cost. I also went to my nephew's games and of course I just gave my family the pictures for free. Beyond that sort of thing, donating your time and providing photos to a charitable cause could be a worthwhile option.

Businesses don't provide a product or service for free - does a restaurant give you a free meal? does the plumber come over and not charge you? Now they may offer specials or deals, kids eat free or buy one - get one, but would go out of business if they did nothing but freebies. I had a mechanic not charge me for a minor repair that didn't require parts because I'd been a regular customer for years - so for the right reason it makes sense, but to keep doing freebies randomly for everybody all the time doesn't seem like it's going to work running a business. I think you can keep it affordable but stay in range of the going rate so you're not underpricing.

 

[kitkatdubs]

I think you really need to give some thought to what John's telling you; he knows what he's talking about.

I totally agree with both of you. I am just trying to find what fits for me and my style. I worked for a bank doing sales for a year absolutely hated it! I am not a sales person and I don't like the idea of pushing prints to people if they would rather have the digitals. Yes, I understand people have 10,000+ photos and they do nothing with them, but with everything turning digital lately, most people want the digitals to share on FB and email to friends and family. What about the idea of charging a flat rate session fee of say $150 - then charging per package. So the 5 digitals would be $100. 10 digitals would be $180. 20 digitals would be $320. Is that an option?

 

[tirediron]

Digital packages are absolutely an option, and IMO, you should always separate the session fee from the product regardless of whether it's digital of physical. I totally understand the social media requirements, and what I like to do is offer "facebook files" as a free bonus; these are <200 pixel long-edge images at 72PPI. As far as the sales go, I never push; I recommend options.

I explain that one of the reasons I like to offer them prints, in addition to the not getting lost in their computer aspect, is so that they can have a professionally printed piece of art. Most people don't have access to professional labs, and don't appreciate the difference they make. One of the things I often do when I get the "Well, I'll just pay a little more for the digital file and make the prints at Wal-mart" comment is to pull out two versions of the same image; one done by my lab, the other done at Wal-mart. more often than not, that convinces them.

 

[kitkatdubs]

Digital packages are absolutely an option, and IMO, you should always separate the session fee from the product regardless of whether it's digital of physical. I totally understand the social media requirements, and what I like to do is offer "facebook files" as a free bonus; these are <200 pixel long-edge images at 72PPI. As far as the sales go, I never push; I recommend options.

I explain that one of the reasons I like to offer them prints, in addition to the not getting lost in their computer aspect, is so that they can have a professionally printed piece of art. Most people don't have access to professional labs, and don't appreciate the difference they make. One of the things I often do when I get the "Well, I'll just pay a little more for the digital file and make the prints at Wal-mart" comment is to pull out two versions of the same image; one done by my lab, the other done at Wal-mart. more often than not, that convinces them.

So would you recommend putting on my website the session fee but NOT the digital package prices and options? SO at least customers know the price for the session? Or would that confuse them and then they think the whole thing is $150 and get mad when I send them the price sheet that they have to pay extra for the digitals. How many Facebook files do you give as a bonus? All of them in Facebook format?

 

[kitkatdubs]

Also, what is your reason for separating the digitals out? I don't really get that whole idea... it sounds great but Im trying to figure out the reasoning behind charging a session fee AND charging per package....

 

[KmH]

. . . I would like to get business just not sure where to start on how to do that.

How is by effective marketing and promotion.
The start, as John (tirediron) pointed out, is a well researched and written business/marketing plan - intended to be done early on to establish that a business has a chance at being an ongoing enterprise.
As the business is ongoing, the business plan has to be continually updated as business conditions change.
Starting & Managing a Business | The U.S. Small Business Administration | SBA.gov

 

[tirediron]

Also, what is your reason for separating the digitals out? I don't really get that whole idea... it sounds great but Im trying to figure out the reasoning behind charging a session fee AND charging per package....

You bill for the session at the time of shooting. That pays for your time and creativity to actually create the images. This is separate from the purchase of the product, in much the same way that if you got a mechanic, labour and parts are separate line items on the invoice. It also ensures that if the client decides not to actually purchase any prints/files, you're not out of pocket for the session.