Need advise from experienced Canon portrait photographers

[zombiesniper]

Before I could even begin to answer I need a bit of clarification.
You want a wider lens since you can't fit 5 people in so I would have to guess you are shooting indoors. If this is so are you using lights? If you are using lights I am confused why you are at a max of F4. When I shoot with my lights I start at F8.

If you are shooting outside then you can easily move back enough to get in 5 people.

If you are shooting inside with natural light please stop trying to shoot 5 people at once. You need lights or reflectors.

 

[angelusagendi]

Before I could even begin to answer I need a bit of clarification.
You want a wider lens since you can't fit 5 people in so I would have to guess you are shooting indoors. If this is so are you using lights? If you are using lights I am confused why you are at a max of F4. When I shoot with my lights I start at F8.

If you are shooting outside then you can easily move back enough to get in 5 people.

If you are shooting inside with natural light please stop trying to shoot 5 people at once. You need lights or reflectors.

Hi there, thank you very much for your reply. For now I am shooting portraits outdoors. My challenge is focus. Currently using Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens... Even if I step back, 2 or more people are not all in focus... Even with one, often I step away yet shooting the half or full body, eyes are out of focus. I am not pro, but this focus thing really bothers me... I did try to increase F, yet still having issues sometimes... Any advise is very appreciate...

 

[angelusagendi]

Being a beginner, before you get into more expense it seems like you need to get out and practice and learn more with the camera and lens you have now. Go out and take pictures of, I don't know, flowers and bushes or whatever and use different aperture settings til you figure out how aperture affects how much of a subject or scene is in focus. You seem to have bypassed learning basics - if you learn more and get better at using your camera that should help you be better eventually at photography.

You are absolutely right. I am doing it currently. Thank you

 

[Derrel]

Getting the heads physically close together will help! I mean like in a 3- or 2-person shot, if you have their heads almost touching, it can help to get enough depth of field, but you'll likely need to be at f/6.3 or f/7.1 or f/8 if close-in, in order to get everybody in-focus.

Stay away from wide f/stops like f/1.8 or f/2 or f/2.8 or even f/4; stop the lens down (to the higher f-number values, like 8 or higher) when the camera is close to the subjects!

 

[angelusagendi]

Getting the heads physically close together will help! I mean lie in a 3- or 2-person shot, if you have their heads almost touching, it can help to get enough depth of field, but you'll likely need to be at f/6.3 or f/7.1 or f/8 if close-in, in order to get everybody in-focus.

Stay away from wide f/stops like f/1.8 or f/2 or f/2.8 or even f/4; stop the lens down (to the higher f-number values, like 8 or higher) when the camera is close to the subjects!

Dear Derrel,

Thank you. I know that stopping at f/6.3 and up helps to be more focused...However, the light decreases. Then I'd increase ISO, but it would be a bit grainy.. What can you recommend for an outdoor photoshoot when shooting two people to maintain good quality of the picture and nice light, yet be focused on subjects well (without blur issue)? Thank you

 

[zombiesniper]

My challenge is focus. Currently using Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens... Even if I step back, 2 or more people are not all in focus... Even with one, often I step away yet shooting the half or full body, eyes are out of focus.

This sounds like it could be a combination of couple of problems.
Just like Derrel has said above. Getting peoples faces as close to the same distance from the camera will greatly improve your chances for them all to be in focus.
The second part can also be broken down in two parts.
First is your camera settings. Ensuring your focus mode is in one shot and not AI servo. One shot will try until it has achieved focus then it will stop. AI servo will keep trying to achieve focus until the shutter is fired.
Second is technique. You want to ensure the focus is on the eye. There are again two ways to do this. Use the centre focus point, focus on the eye and then recompose. Or adjust the focus point to be on the eye with the desired composition. I personally use centre and recompose.

Practicing this with stationary object such as a mannequin head or doll will ensure any missed focus is user error and not model movement.

 

[Derrel]

SNIP>>>>However, the light decreases. Then I'd increase ISO, but it would be a bit grainy.. What can you recommend for an outdoor photoshoot when shooting two people to maintain good quality of the picture and nice light, yet be focused on subjects well (without blur issue)? Thank you

I would rather see noise/grain than out-of-focus faces, so I woud say, use camera support (monopod,tripod, or VR, IS, OIS, IBS) to steady the camera and lens, and shoot at slower speeds. OR....augment the light with a large reflector, or use electronic flash of one kind or another (speedlight or monolight-type studio-type flash).

OR....elevate the ISO to a reasonable level for your camera, like say 1,600 or 2,000, and expose fairly generously..
OR....if you have an ISO invariant sensor, shoot at f/6.3 at 1/60 second, and brighten the shots in post software.

 

[angelusagendi]

My challenge is focus. Currently using Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens... Even if I step back, 2 or more people are not all in focus... Even with one, often I step away yet shooting the half or full body, eyes are out of focus.

This sounds like it could be a combination of couple of problems.
Just like Derrel has said above. Getting peoples faces as close to the same distance from the camera will greatly improve your chances for them all to be in focus.
The second part can also be broken down in two parts.
First is your camera settings. Ensuring your focus mode is in one shot and not AI servo. One shot will try until it has achieved focus then it will stop. AI servo will keep trying to achieve focus until the shutter is fired.
Second is technique. You want to ensure the focus is on the eye. There are again two ways to do this. Use the centre focus point, focus on the eye and then recompose. Or adjust the focus point to be on the eye with the desired composition. I personally use centre and recompose.

Practicing this with stationary object such as a mannequin head or doll will ensure any missed focus is user error and not model movement.

Thank you. Yes, it is set on One Shot.... Yes, today I did an outdoor photoshoot, and it went well, but I lost some great photos due to focus issue. I did try to recompose, yet, not always successful... I know practice will make it better... But the focus problem keeps persisting.
Also, if my 2 subjects cannot be too close (like head to head), what else can I do to make sure they won't be out of focus. Should I not use my Canon 50mm f/1.8 when shooting 2 subjects? Instead use general Canon 18-55? Thank you!

 

[angelusagendi]

SNIP>>>>However, the light decreases. Then I'd increase ISO, but it would be a bit grainy.. What can you recommend for an outdoor photoshoot when shooting two people to maintain good quality of the picture and nice light, yet be focused on subjects well (without blur issue)? Thank you

I would rather see noise/grain than out-of-focus faces, so I woud say, use camera support (monopod,tripod, or VR, IS, OIS, IBS) to steady the camera and lens, and shoot at slower speeds. OR....augment the light with a large reflector, or use electronic flash of one kind or another (speedlight or monolight-type studio-type flash).

OR....elevate the ISO to a reasonable level for your camera, like say 1,600 or 2,000, and expose fairly generously..
OR....if you have an ISO invariant sensor, shoot at f/6.3 at 1/60 second, and brighten the shots in post software.

This is quiet helpful. Thank you, Derrel!

 

[photo1x1.com]

My challenge is focus. Currently using Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens... Even if I step back, 2 or more people are not all in focus... Even with one, often I step away yet shooting the half or full body, eyes are out of focus.

This sounds like it could be a combination of couple of problems.
Just like Derrel has said above. Getting peoples faces as close to the same distance from the camera will greatly improve your chances for them all to be in focus.
The second part can also be broken down in two parts.
First is your camera settings. Ensuring your focus mode is in one shot and not AI servo. One shot will try until it has achieved focus then it will stop. AI servo will keep trying to achieve focus until the shutter is fired.
Second is technique. You want to ensure the focus is on the eye. There are again two ways to do this. Use the centre focus point, focus on the eye and then recompose. Or adjust the focus point to be on the eye with the desired composition. I personally use centre and recompose.

Practicing this with stationary object such as a mannequin head or doll will ensure any missed focus is user error and not model movement.

Thank you. Yes, it is set on One Shot.... Yes, today I did an outdoor photoshoot, and it went well, but I lost some great photos due to focus issue. I did try to recompose, yet, not always successful... I know practice will make it better... But the focus problem keeps persisting.
Also, if my 2 subjects cannot be too close (like head to head), what else can I do to make sure they won't be out of focus. Should I not use my Canon 50mm f/1.8 when shooting 2 subjects? Instead use general Canon 18-55? Thank you!

Let me sum a few things up that have been said to help you better understand what is going on.
Your "problem" is probably called shallow depth of field or shallow depth of focus. The lower your f-stop number is, the shallower the area of focus in your image.
Some people us it to their advantage in portrait photography to have the person(s) sharp and the background as blurred as possible (using f-stops around f1.8 and on other lenses even f1.2). But the chance to miss a shot is there, even if you are very experienced. That´s one of the reasons why professionals usually take more than one shot to make sure to get at least one image that is well focussed.
If you use higher numbers (photographers call that to stop down), the area of focus will become bigger, the background and the people become sharper.
If you still want to use f1.8, you have to place all the faces (actually all the eyes) of your group within the same distance to your camera. Putting them close together as mentioned needs a little more explanation I think. If you have them close together behind one another some would still be out of focus, even if their heads touch.

I hope that graphic doesn´t confuse you more than it helps. you don´t have to place the people in a circle. They just need to be within the same distance to your camera.

The focus will be more shallow

1. The smaller your f-number
2. The longer your focal length
3. The closer you are to your subject

There is one more thing though that could get you into troubles. Some lenses have focus issues - front focus or back focus. If you feel like you have done everything right and the eyes (especially when you photograph just one person) are still out of focus, then you could have such a lens. In this case a few cameras have adjustments in their menus, others don´t. If you have one of the latter you have to let it check.
But don´t consider doing that before you are not absolutely sure you´ve got everything else right.

 

[angelusagendi]

My challenge is focus. Currently using Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens... Even if I step back, 2 or more people are not all in focus... Even with one, often I step away yet shooting the half or full body, eyes are out of focus.

This sounds like it could be a combination of couple of problems.
Just like Derrel has said above. Getting peoples faces as close to the same distance from the camera will greatly improve your chances for them all to be in focus.
The second part can also be broken down in two parts.
First is your camera settings. Ensuring your focus mode is in one shot and not AI servo. One shot will try until it has achieved focus then it will stop. AI servo will keep trying to achieve focus until the shutter is fired.
Second is technique. You want to ensure the focus is on the eye. There are again two ways to do this. Use the centre focus point, focus on the eye and then recompose. Or adjust the focus point to be on the eye with the desired composition. I personally use centre and recompose.

Practicing this with stationary object such as a mannequin head or doll will ensure any missed focus is user error and not model movement.

Thank you. Yes, it is set on One Shot.... Yes, today I did an outdoor photoshoot, and it went well, but I lost some great photos due to focus issue. I did try to recompose, yet, not always successful... I know practice will make it better... But the focus problem keeps persisting.
Also, if my 2 subjects cannot be too close (like head to head), what else can I do to make sure they won't be out of focus. Should I not use my Canon 50mm f/1.8 when shooting 2 subjects? Instead use general Canon 18-55? Thank you!

Let me sum a few things up that have been said to help you better understand what is going on.
Your "problem" is probably called shallow depth of field or shallow depth of focus. The lower your f-stop number is, the shallower the area of focus in your image.
Some people us it to their advantage in portrait photography to have the person(s) sharp and the background as blurred as possible (using f-stops around f1.8 and on other lenses even f1.2). But the chance to miss a shot is there, even if you are very experienced. That´s one of the reasons why professionals usually take more than one shot to make sure to get at least one image that is well focussed.
If you use higher numbers (photographers call that to stop down), the area of focus will become bigger, the background and the people become sharper.
If you still want to use f1.8, you have to place all the faces (actually all the eyes) of your group within the same distance to your camera. Putting them close together as mentioned needs a little more explanation I think. If you have them close together behind one another some would still be out of focus, even if their heads touch.
View attachment 146405
I hope that graphic doesn´t confuse you more than it helps. you don´t have to place the people in a circle. They just need to be within the same distance to your camera.

The focus will be more shallow

1. The smaller your f-number
2. The longer your focal length
3. The closer you are to your subject

There is one more thing though that could get you into troubles. Some lenses have focus issues - front focus or back focus. If you feel like you have done everything right and the eyes (especially when you photograph just one person) are still out of focus, then you could have such a lens. In this case a few cameras have adjustments in their menus, others don´t. If you have one of the latter you have to let it check.
But don´t consider doing that before you are not absolutely sure you´ve got everything else right.

Thank you for such a detailed reply.

 

[ClickAddict]

I have and still shoot frequently with the Sigma Art 18-35 F1.8. It was recommended that the 17-50 gets you a longer range, but since you already have the 50mm f1.8 you wont be missing much in my opinion. They, (along with a 70-300 for longer stuff) were my go to lenses for about 2 years and I shot mostly portraits.

 

[angelusagendi]

I have and still shoot frequently with the Sigma Art 18-35 F1.8. It was recommended that the 17-50 gets you a longer range, but since you already have the 50mm f1.8 you wont be missing much in my opinion. They, (along with a 70-300 for longer stuff) were my go to lenses for about 2 years and I shot mostly portraits.

Thank you

 

[benhasajeep]

I have a question. When you have focus issues. Is there parts of the picture (other people) that are in focus that you did not focus on or intend too? Many cameras and lens combinations have either front focus or back focus issues. If your using an aperture that is right on the edge of sharp focus range for your subjects. If the lens / camera back focuses or front focuses a little. You will get soft focus. Of course going to higher aperture will help alleviate this. But as you have said then you run into high ISO / noise issues.

I would test your lens / lenses for focus. There are many tutorials online for testing. And free targets and such. No need to buy anything. Once you know if your getting a little back or front focus. You can make adjustments to your position even if your camera does not have a focus adjustment option (it may, I just don't know if it does). That way you can use a tighter aperture and lower ISO setting and get more shots in sharp focus.

 

[angelusagendi]

Thank you so much for your response. I was also wondering if I have some camera focus issues or I simply didn't do setup correctly.
I usually shoot in Aperture mode and sometimes in Manual mode. Most of the time I use autofocus.
So far my camera set up the the following: ONE SHOT AF. When clicked on Menu. there are 4 options: Face + Tracking, FlexiZone - Multiple, FlexiZone - Single, Quick mode. Not sure what should I select. Usually it is on Face and tracking mode.
Another thing on the menu is Continuous AF and it is set to "enable".

Currently, I take solo shots of people (meaning 1 person in the picture). Most of my photos are nice, but often I miss great shots. So one eye will be in focus and another not. Or sometimes beard is in focus and eyes are not. When I look into the camera window when taking photos I see red dots (around 3 always) and I try to focus on eyes, of course, yet the dots don't cover eyes. I try to to get closer focusing on eyes and then moving away holding the focus, but often this doesn't work. I am missing technique here. I know it. But I am wondering if my camera is set up wrongly, or there is lens focus issues. I shooting with Canon T5i, lens Canon 50mm F1.8.

I appreciate your help.
Natallia