Nikon/Canon Kit Lenses Question

Discussion in 'Photography Equipment & Products' started by bp4life71, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. bp4life71

    bp4life71 TPF Noob!

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    Gentlemen,

    Once again, I have questions.....amateur questions at that!

    Will I be able to produce the In-Focus/Background blurred effect with the kit lenses of either the Canon XS/XSI or the Nikon D60?

    I'm asking about both kits because i STILL have not decided which camera to get this weekend. Feel free to persuade me on one or the other though. But PLEASE answer my actual question first.....subject focused/background not...yes or no?

    Thanks guys...great forums here.
     
  2. bigtwinky

    bigtwinky No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Yes you will. The level of "un-focusedness" will not be as great as with a better lens though.

    Head to flickr ( www.flickr.com ) and in the search window, type 18-55 DOF. You'll get some hits that show you pictures with those tags, which should give you an idea of what you can do.

    And read up on depth of field, and the different variables that control how blurry the background is. For little depth of field (ie - as blurry as possible):
    - long focal lenght on your lens
    - widest aperture
    - lots of distance between background and subject
     
  3. bigtwinky

    bigtwinky No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    There are some amazing women here who are very accomplished photographers... I wouldn`t diss them in your opening statement :mrgreen:

    (I know it wasn`t intentional, I`m just saying...)
     
  4. Dao

    Dao No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    It depends on the situation.

    Both kit lenses from Canon, Nikon or any other camera companies behave about the same. Yes, the kit lens can do that.

    For example, take a photo of a watch that is 12 inches away from the camera. The background is about 50 feet from the watch and the aperture is set to max of the focal length (i.e. F/5.6 at 55mm) you choose.
    In this situation, you should have a blur background. (Dof is about 0.02ft)


    However, if you are planning to take a photo of a person standing 10 feet away from the camera, it maybe a little tough to achieve this effect with any kit lens.


    So, if you are planning to use the camera to take some portrait type shots of a person in the way that subject is in focus and background is out of focus AND at the same time, you want to save some money, I will recommend you go with the Canon and get a 50mm F/1.8 lens.

    If you choose the D60, most likely you need to get the AF-S lens which cost more. Personally if I have to choose Nikon, I would rather have a D90 with 50mm F/1.8D AF than D60 with 50mm F/1.4G AF-S.

    If you want to keep the cost down in the beginning and able to do what you described, Canon seems to be a better choice (D60 vs XS/XSi). (Not with the kit lens though!)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  5. bigtwinky

    bigtwinky No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    I totally agree, look into that 50mm f/1.8 lens. It was the first lens I purchased and I love it. Cost me $80 too
     
  6. epp_b

    epp_b No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    As it's a slow lens, it depends largely on how close you're focused.

    For example:

    [​IMG]

    That will have been focused about as closely as this lens can go, and it was stopped down to f/11 yet.
     
  7. inTempus

    inTempus TPF Noob!

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    To achieve and out of focus background you don't need a super wide aperture. This is a pic I shot goofing around last weekend.

    Settings:
    Tv: 1/125
    Av: f/5
    ISO: 100

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, the out of focus area is still too much, I could have bumped it down to f/6.3 and it probably would have been about right with the subject in focus and everything else out of focus.

    So, the kit lenses for both Nikon and Canon can achieve this creamy background without having to invest in a f/1.8 lens. It's just a matter of knowing what causes the effect.

    The key elements are:

    1) aperture size
    2) distance of subject from lens
    3) distance of subject from background

    Jerry has posted better examples of this in the past where he's used surprisingly small aperture settings and achieved a nice creamy background.
     
  8. inTempus

    inTempus TPF Noob!

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    At 50mm and f/1.8 you will have to be pretty careful how you pose the subject. If they aren't square with the camera you'll get one eye in focus, the other out of focus along with half of the face if they're at even the slightest angle. That, or to avoid this issue you'll have to stand back pretty far from the subject and they'll probably appear to small in the frame for a proper portrait.

    In essence, there's no need to shoot at f/1.8 to get this effect in portraits. You can easily do it at f/2.8 or even f/4 with the proper lens and technique and not blur part of the subject.

    Here's an example, again from last weekend. This was shot at f/3.2:

    [​IMG]

    The subject is perfectly in focus while the background immediately after and before the subject is out of focus.
     
  9. Dao

    Dao No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Agree 100%. I shoot this Robin at F/8 even. :)

    [​IMG]




    Since OP was trying to decide which camera to get and it seems to me (based on this thread and the other one) that cost is one of the main factor. And I was guessing that he/she was planning to shoot portrait type shots (I could be wrong, so I gave a watch photo as an example). So just want to let him/her know about what lens others people usually want/get next after buying the camera with the kit lens for portrait type shots. A fast 50mm lens.


    By the way, I am just wondering in your photo why the one who is wearing the helmet is the car, not the driver???:lol:
     
  10. inTempus

    inTempus TPF Noob!

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    I'm guessing he's like me with my camera gear... I protect my 1D more than I protect myself. I shielded it from huge chunks of rocks and dirt with my body as the dragsters passed within 15ft of me. I was literally standing on the guardrail shooting. :D

    [​IMG]

    Seriously though, he had just finished his run and was coming down the return road when I shot that pic. It was kind of hot and sunny that day so I assume he took his helmet off to catch a nice cool breeze.
     
  11. bp4life71

    bp4life71 TPF Noob!

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    The other poster was correct. Money is a factor as this is simply a hobby for me. I can't go pretending i'm a professional now! Heck, I just figured out how f stops, iso, aperature relate to each other. Self-taught this week! Woo hoo. I'm a quick study though, and wither the d60 or the xs/xsi will be my camera this weekend. I must say I am leaning slightly to the Nikon....but am slightly down on the 3 points of focus (even though I dont really know if this will be a factor in practicality for what I'll be shooting). The Canon's speed at which it can take shots, with its extra focus points may be a better fit for me.

    Lenses seem a wash, both competitively priced, and 3rd market lenses seem to be readily available for either.

    Still not sure....i do like the looks of the Nikon better...but I'm a performance guy....looks take a back seat to performance.
     
  12. inTempus

    inTempus TPF Noob!

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    I can tell you, there is nothing more frustrating than trying to shoot something like sports only to have your camera stop taking pictures for several seconds because the buffer is full. It will make you want to toss your camera across the field. :)
     

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