Nikon or Canon?

AUZambo · Nov 17, 2009

:lmao:

Okay, seriously though, I'm not exactly happy with my Sony gear and if the day ever rolls around where I can afford to do so, I'm going to swap to either Canon or Nikon. One of the main reasons I'm not happy with Sony is that I'm extremely limited in ISO selection. It's performance at high ISO is so poor that I hate to even go over 400.

For those of you with Nikon or Canon, how high can you go on your ISO settings before you start to get uncomfortable? I know other factors contribute to noise (exposure time, brightness of the scene, etc.) but I'm just looking for general numbers. Also, if you could tell me what specific camera you're using that would help!

Finally, what's the progression for Canon DSLRs? I know Nikon goes D40, D50, D60, D70, D80, D90, D100, D200, D300, D700, D3 (not sure where D3000 and D5000 fit)...but canon ain't quite so easy to remember. What is canon's main competition to the D300? Is it the 5D? Or is the 5D competing with the D90?

TIA!

PatrickHMS · Nov 17, 2009

AUZambo said:
:lmao:

Okay, seriously though, I'm not exactly happy with my Sony gear and if the day ever rolls around where I can afford to do so, I'm going to swap to either Canon or Nikon. One of the main reasons I'm not happy with Sony is that I'm extremely limited in ISO selection. It's performance at high ISO is so poor that I hate to even go over 400.

For those of you with Nikon or Canon, how high can you go on your ISO settings before you start to get uncomfortable? I know other factors contribute to noise (exposure time, brightness of the scene, etc.) but I'm just looking for general numbers. Also, if you could tell me what specific camera you're using that would help!

Finally, what's the progression for Canon DSLRs? I know Nikon goes D40, D50, D60, D70, D80, D90, D100, D200, D300, D700, D3 (not sure where D3000 and D5000 fit)...but canon ain't quite so easy to remember. What is canon's main competition to the D300? Is it the 5D? Or is the 5D competing with the D90?

TIA!

War Eagle to ya!

For your Nikon progressions, the D3000 replaces the discontinued D40 (D3000 also has no focusing motor in camera body), and the D5000 fits in right below the D90, and the D5000 also does not have a focusing motor, nor video like the D90, so it might just be a baby D90(???).

I prefer the D40 to the D3000, and the D90 to the D5000.

Hope this helps.

inTempus · Nov 17, 2009

Canon goes:

10D
20D
30D
40D
50D
7D
5D Mark II
1D Mark III / IV

The Nikon D3000 and D5000 fit in between the D80 and D90 in your list above.

For high ISO, the D90, D300s, D700 and the D3's are Nikon's top performers.

For Canon the 7D, 5D2, and the new 1D4 are the top performers.

With the crop sensor bodies (D90, D300, 50D, 7D) you can comfortably hit ISO 3200 with little noise to worry about. Some folks even push things to 6400 on the crop bodies and still get good results depending on the situation. Here's an ISO 6400 shot I took with my old 50D in a hotel room for a forum discussion.

It's totally usable.

The Nikons tend to do a little better in this department than Canon but I've found the difference isn't all that great. When you hit the full frame bodies like the 5D2 and the D700 your ISO performance improves even more. The D700 really does shine here, but the 5D2 isn't a slouch either.

Here's a 5D2 ISO 6400 shot that I took once again for a forum discussion a while back.

And here's an ISO 12800 shot I took for a discussion with my 5D2:

The new Nikon D3s and Canon 1D4 promise improved high ISO performance that makes these high ISO shots look less impressive. I look forward to seeing how these new bodies perform.

bigtwinky · Nov 17, 2009

inTempus said:
Canon goes:

10D
20D
30D
40D
50D
7D
5D Mark II
1D Mark III / IV

Canon has some more consumer level cameras, known as their Rebel series. The Rebel series seems to have two names for the same model (actually, three), depending on where you live. North America has the XTI, XSI naming convention while the European/International market has 350D, 450D. I believe the japanese market has the same cameras with a Kiss naming convention such as Kiss Digital N, Kiss 7,...

350D / XT
400D / XTI
450D / XSI
1000D / XS
500D / T1i

The 1000D is actually a slimmed down, lower specced 450D... also at a lower cost.

PhotoXopher · Nov 17, 2009

Nikon

[CCD Sensors (There are more but these are the most common today)]

D40
D60
D3000 (replaced the D40, D40x and D60)
D80
D200

[CMOS Sensors (High ISO)]

D5000
D90

D300
D300s
D700

D3
D3x
D3s

With my D40, D60, D80 and D200 I would be very hesitant to shoot at even 800 ISO. However with the D90 I shoot up to 3200 ISO with better results than 800 ISO of the other bodies I've had.

The CMOS sensor makes a world of difference.

The problem is that you won't find one for $400 or less (maybe Canon, but not Nikon).

Canon's competition for the D300s is the 7D.
Canon's closest competition for the D90 is the 50D.

itznfb · Nov 17, 2009

Shouldn't the Sony a700 have the same ISO performance as a Nikon D90?

rocdoc · Nov 17, 2009

I use Nikon, so keep that in mind (as a general rule, remember people will have an instinctive bias toward the brand they use). From what I read online and in print from comparisons made by pros, Nikon is pretty spectacular in high ISO on the crop bodies compared to anything out there, and apparently recently has an edge over Canon on metering and autofocus. Again, I may have just noticed the positives about Nikon more, and someone more attentive to Canon's qualities may feel the opposite.
Do keep in mind that for bodies you have to really pixel-peep to find image differences between Nikon and Canon on the new models. You would be much better served if you considered the lenses available and the "feel" of the camera and controls, and how those fit with your workflow. That is entirely a matter of taste, and many have chosen one over the other based mainly on this (often underestimated) factor.

bigtwinky · Nov 17, 2009

Oh, to answer the original question...

I shoot with an XSI and i'm hesitant to go over 400 ISO. 800 can be do-able in specific situations.

inTempus · Nov 17, 2009

itznfb said:
Shouldn't the Sony a700 have the same ISO performance as a Nikon D90?

Just because Sony makes the sensors for Nikon (Canon makes their own sensors), doesn't mean they will perform the same. Let's assume the sensors are identical (they may not be), there's far more to high ISO performance than sensor design alone. Nikons EXPEED processing engine is light years ahead of anything Sony currently has in terms of high ISO performance. If you have the same sensors, Nikon will still produce better images due to the EXPEED system.

MrLogic · Nov 17, 2009

"Current" models only:

Canon:

Rebel XS (1000D)
Rebel T1i (500D)
50D
7D
5D Mark II
1D Mark IV
1Ds Mark III

Nikon:

D3000
D5000
D90
D300s
D700
D3S
D3X

These are still in production. Others, such as the Canon Rebel XSi & 1D Mark III and Nikon D60 & D3 are not (AFAIK), but are still readily available, depending on where you live.

(I guess the D3 & 1D Mark III have yet to be replaced, but you get the point.)

itznfb · Nov 17, 2009

inTempus said:
itznfb said:

Shouldn't the Sony a700 have the same ISO performance as a Nikon D90?

Click to expand...

Just because Sony makes the sensors for Nikon (Canon makes their own sensors), doesn't mean they will perform the same. Let's assume the sensors are identical (they may not be), there's far more to high ISO performance than sensor design alone. Nikons EXPEED processing engine is light years ahead of anything Sony currently has in terms of high ISO performance. If you have the same sensors, Nikon will still produce better images due to the EXPEED system.

True the processor has a lot to do with it especially in high ISO noise reduction but I thought the a700/500 performed much closer to the D90/5000 than the OP is reporting. I wouldn't have thought they'd be stuck around ISO-400.

AUZambo · Nov 17, 2009

itznfb said:
inTempus said:

itznfb said:

Shouldn't the Sony a700 have the same ISO performance as a Nikon D90?

Click to expand...

Just because Sony makes the sensors for Nikon (Canon makes their own sensors), doesn't mean they will perform the same. Let's assume the sensors are identical (they may not be), there's far more to high ISO performance than sensor design alone. Nikons EXPEED processing engine is light years ahead of anything Sony currently has in terms of high ISO performance. If you have the same sensors, Nikon will still produce better images due to the EXPEED system.

Click to expand...

True the processor has a lot to do with it especially in high ISO noise reduction but I thought the a700/500 performed much closer to the D90/5000 than the OP is reporting. I wouldn't have thought they'd be stuck around ISO-400.

I do on occasion go to 800 when I have no other option and follow it up with a slight noise reduction in CS3. The A700 is a HUGE improvement over my old A100 which showed noise even at ISO 400, but I think that considering this is one of Sony's advanced cameras it should be performing considerably better.

rocdoc · Nov 17, 2009

I forgot you had asked what pics looked like. So, examples with my D90.

If it helps, here is one at ISO 1100, NR is whatever the camera does on default. I shoot raw and make sure that when I "develop", I use the "better quality" option in Capture NX (the Nikon raw processing software for noise reduction).

And this is at ISO 640. What I said for processing in the previous one applies to this one too.

I have my ISO auto set to 1600. They are usable at 3200 too, but I think I can get by with the cleaner ones without having to go that high. I like the clean look of lower ISO whenever I can get it...