Not quite 4,000...

[Dagwood56]

Chris - I am nowhere near 4000 posts, but I can sympathize with much of what you said, in fact I was just saying many of these same things to my husband this morning. I come in here at times all hell bent that the attitudes are not going to bother me and I'll post like crazy for a day or two and then it all just falls apart. I find so many awful photos posted by people that I'd like to C&C on, but as you said, so many other admitted noobs have already posted and said how great that awful shot is, so how do you tactfully followup on that with an "Uh, I'm sorry, but your photo really sucks", so I leave without posting anything at all. Other times I'd like to say something positive about photos someone posts, but the opposite falls true - so many noobs have posted that the photos are bad that I feel uncomfortable saying that I like it - so I don't post at all. And all the threads about "what camera should I buy?" sometimes I'd like to post to these in all caps and say "Get whatever f**king one you want as long as you like it!" but thats not in my nature so I breathe a deep sigh and just leave without posting at all.

I miss the way TPF used to be a couple years back, when people here were more interested in really learning and helping others rather than bickering. When people gave tactful and helpful C&C and it was received as such, not attacked by the person who orignally asked for it. I'm getting quickly annoyed at the people who don't even take the time to read HOW to post photos and post numerous links to another site or have the photos thumbnail size with a message to cllick for larger photos. I don't bother with those either, this poor old soul still has dial up so much of the time I can't access those links anyway unless I feel like waiting for 20 minutes for them to load!

I know many blame the Mods and admin for the problems here, but in many cases its just lifes fast paced way of doing things these days "instant everything" so no one bothers to take the time to look for directions. Too bad there isn't a practical way to make some of the sticky threads a must read to all new users before they are allowed to make a real post.

I don't often post photos here anymore - the reason? Because the members whose opinions and C&C I respected, have either left or only pop in on ocassion. I hope you don't leave TPF, it would be a shame to see someone else who falls ito the afore mentioned group -fall through the cracks and vanish.

 

[Dagwood56]

I have found better learning tools with less attitude(they are called Google, Youtube(yeah...they have tutorials), and even those old fashioned things called...."books")...and for you Nintendo generation...they are made of paper and some even have pictures.

:thumbup::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao: :thumbup:

 

[MBasile]

Perhaps I'm not a "roll over and die" kind of guy, but I would suggest sticking it out and posting your opinions/critiques on photos. If you are saddened by the turn the forum is taking, make an effort to prevent the change.

That being said, I think what you're witnessing is a side effect of a growing "community" online. The more people there are, the less concentration of talent and less likely people will get along do to the vast differences in opinion.

Also, I think another problem is (and this will most likely offend someone that takes it personally) people get a DSLR and think that having a camera makes them a photographer. That's where the attitude comes from. Unfortunately there attitude and arrogance overshadows the laid back demeanor of those wishing to quietly learn.

 

[blash]

1) I miss the way TPF used to be a couple years back, when people here were more interested in really learning and helping others rather than bickering. When people gave tactful and helpful C&C and it was received as such, not attacked by the person who orignally asked for it.

2) I'm getting quickly annoyed at the people who don't even take the time to read HOW to post photos and post numerous links to another site or have the photos thumbnail size with a message to cllick for larger photos.

3) I know many blame the Mods and admin for the problems here

4) I don't often post photos here anymore - the reason? Because the members whose opinions and C&C I respected, have either left or only pop in on ocassion.

Couldn't put it that much better myself. I would've posted those four, but you beat me to the punch.

I agree with #3 on a very strong level. All it would take is a couple stickied posts, some very clear bold text on the screen before user registration, and liberal deletion of posts that keep asking the same questions. If the forum needs more mods, I'm sure they could recruit some from among the members with the most seniority. But right now, the forums are the equivalent of an anarchic wasteland - I'm sorry to say it, but it's true and it needs to be said.

I posted some images a while back when I first joined, as a complete newb who didn't know WHAT he was doing, and never got more than a few responses. This was my first post, ever, asking about non-color related issues:
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ery/145835-israel-summer-2008-cc-welcome.html

And this was my Freudian defense mechanism for underexposure once I switched to film:
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...xplorations-contrast-portrait-c-c-please.html

And then there was my complete IDIOCY that showed a complete lack of understanding of flash photography before I picked up my SB-800 and a little more mileage under my belt.
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...ographers-why-you-leave-camera-flash-off.html

My God there was so much newbiness in that last one. "I tend to think that shots where you catch another flash are really cool-- the light in the second one is much more interesting." Really??? At least Drewski put a *little* wisdom in that thread.

So for better or for worse, I got a lot more feedback in my university photography classes than I did here. Since I wasn't getting feedback, and I wasn't shooting digital anymore, and I don't own a film scanner so it's not a simple thing for me to get my film online - what's the point of posting?

Now I just lurk in the Photo Discussions and Equipment sections. It's still a fun waste of time to see what other people think about this and that and to troll "FILM FILM FILM" whenever I can :mrgreen:

I'll be sticking around a while longer, now that I understand a little bit more about what makes a good photo (my parents' scrapbook wasn't exactly a shining example), I can start to really learn by doing and living. Thanks guys!

 

[Onion]

Is this the drama support forum? Maybe there should be a sticky for whinning.

 

[NateS]

Is this the drama support forum? Maybe there should be a sticky for whinning.

If there was, it would get overrun by noobs asking the proper way to whine or if one type of whining is superior to another.

 

[Onion]

Is this the drama support forum? Maybe there should be a sticky for whinning.

If there was, it would get overrun by noobs asking the proper way to whine or if one type of whining is superior to another.

 

[Chris of Arabia]

There are some interesting and valid concerns being expressed in this thread. I can't offer an instant remedy nor can I make everything go back to the way it was, or at least how it was perceived to be.

For myself, the general tone of the forum has changed since I joined TPF and probably more so since its ownership changed hands. Much of that is due to the turnover of the regular membership - different people, different approaches, different concerns and different attitudes towards other participants.

One thing I have noticed is that, as moderators, we get considerably fewer reports of bad behaviour than was the case say 12 months ago, but from what I'm seeing that doesn't mean that behaviour has improved somehow, quite the contrary. The only area we reliably get reports on is where the genuine out and out spammer is concerned - that is magnitudes less of a problem than it was around 18 months back when we were really struggling to keep it at bay, particularly the porn.

Some things remain as true now as they did back then though:

1. The moderators are a voluntary part-time appointment
2. We don't read every post, so unless a problem is reported to us, there is a good chance things will escalate to an unsavoury point before we pick up on it
3. Every member of the forum can contribute to what they wish it to be - read the rules, report the crap and hit ignore for those you don't see eye to eye with.

I'll keep reading this thread, so if you have any views you want to share, please feel free to post them, or PM myself or one of the other Mods or Admins.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

4000, WOW!

Been here about a week and don't think I'll make it past 250 posts!

When I came across this forum I thought I could help some youngsters (in photo, not in age) with my almost 35 years of experience and I probably can. Some of the people here seem more than willing to learn. But there are also way too may people posting snapshots who feel limited by their already pretty high-end equipment :lmao:

Not that it's going to make you feel any better but it is the same everywhere. I'm also a music lover and recording engineer (don't ask) and, I tried to help people in Audio oriented forums. But I quickly got tired of the "how come my $150.00 WalMart Surround system doesn't sound like the movie theater" type of questions.

I could tell you a few pages worth of horror stories about my Audio life but who cares?

Move on, friend. Move on to a pro forum. And if you feel stupid there, good. It means you know that you don't know much. But way more important, it means you are willing to learn.

 

[manaheim]

Is this the drama support forum? Maybe there should be a sticky for whinning.

I wondered how long it would take for someone to do that, and there you have it... a prime example.

First off, I want to say that I really appreciate some of the thoughtful posts and reflections, as well as the comments of support and appreciation. I'd like to think this wasn't really about me and more about the forums, but I suppose it was really about both, and for what it's worth these comments did make me feel a bit better at least about my involvement here.

That being said, I do think we have a problem here, and the best I can come up with for a solution is that we need stronger structure and moderation than we have.

When I was on a long time ago, I recall there were various more strictly controlled areas... there was a noobs section where it was pretty much no holds barred... say whatever, be as new as you like, no one minds...

But then there were the more serious areas, where really you were not supposed to go unless you knew what the hell you were doing... and if you dared, you would either get your post moved or you would be squashed... it wasn't in a mean way, really... it was just as if someone new to holding a sword stepped into a Kings Tourney. You'd be disarmed, slapped on the ass with your own sword and kicked headlong into the dung pile before you even realized the duel had started. In short, you're welcome to come try to play with the big boys if you want, but if you venture there, you may get hurt. Deal with it.

This seemed to work well. Not that anyone is asking my opinion, but it seems like this kind of structure would need to be maintained for this kind of community to work the way it once had.

Maybe this forum just isn't the place anymore. Maybe this forum has done what it primarily intended to do, which was to get all of it's ad revenue up so it could make its money... and since we're all here, why kill yourself to change? I can totally understand that, but that doesn't mean we necessarily need to accept it and keep going along with it.

I suppose we could rally together and form a community of marshalls here to rove around and smack people with rulers when they're being bad... but it seems like why do that when we'd still have to deal with the existing structure of the forums, the non-direct moderation control, etc.

I mean, seriously... should I just setup a new forum on my webserver? Is there enough interest in here in striking out for a new world somewhere else?

 

[bdavis]

I've only been on this forum since January and I have even noticed how much it changed.

I came on this forum to get answers to photography questions, hear reviews about gear that just hit the market, see what others are shooting, and maybe offer a little advice here and there. It used to be a lot of fun and I would spend most of my day on here.

Now, it seems like all that is gone. Nearly every post I come across pertains to at least one of the following:

"What camera should I get?"

"Just got a camera, what lens should I get?"

"Just got my camera and lens, what should I shoot?"

"I took this photo with my cell phone, is it good? Should I now spend $1,000 on a DSLR?"

"I know this photo is badly underexposed, oversaturated, oversharpened, and completely out of focus, but I like it anyways, does anyone else?

I have sympathy and respect for those on this forum who are really trying and working to get critiques on their work to be better photographers, but I feel like some people are just taking advantage of the forum.

I remember when i was first starting out in photography, I had enough common sense to know when something was out of focus, dark, too bright, or whatever and I didn't show it to anyone, I just deleted it. Some of the "newbies" post these absolutely terrible images all over the place just for the sake of posting. If you want critiques on an actual photograph, fine, but posting every horrible "snapshot" is too much.

Also, what is with all the "What camera should I choose?" threads? I cant believe there is no one out there who would actually consider going to the store, trying them out, and picking one. Why would you have someone else tell you what camera you should get? We all got our cameras for different reasons whether we liked the features, whether we were on a budget, or if we just liked how it felt in our hands. It's not hard, read reviews, find a few you like, go try them out. How much simpler could it be?

I hate to rant and rave, but its annoying to sign on in the morning and be excited to look at all the topics and find out that 90% of them are the aforementioned questions. I think I am considering leaving as well.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Onion]

So what do you win when you get to 4,000 posts?

:lmao:

 

[dl4449]

As a newcomer around here (1 1/2 years?) I personally enjoyed you critique the ones that I read were honest and genuine. I didn't see anything that could be concidered harsh. Heck I would welcome any honest opnion because if some of my stuff is c**p I need to know how to improve.
I would Challenge the older members to keep on posting and keep this forum the way it was when i joined.
Troy

 

[JerryPH]

Dude... burn through the thread posting until you reach the 5K club. We get to go on field trips, receive a dandy secret decoder ring and (as a male) your penis will enlarge.

Ok, I have a serious complaint with this.

I made the 5k club, and though the penis enlargement thing really did happen (smilin' Bob ain't got a thing on me now! ), I still need to go pester Chris of Arabia for my dandy secret decoder ringy thingy.

Wazzup wit dat??

 

[JerryPH]

Is this the drama support forum? Maybe there should be a sticky for whinning.

If there was, it would get overrun by noobs asking the proper way to whine or if one type of whining is superior to another.

... or what is the best lens to use WHILE whining!