Nudes and Pornography

Discussion in 'People Photography' started by jbylake, Dec 6, 2009.

  1. jbylake

    jbylake Dodging the Men in Black Supporting Member

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    First, please, please keep this thread decent, and if you have issues with nude photography, either moral, religious or other, skip this thread.

    My question is this. In your opinion, where does the line between nude and pornography get drawn.

    I mean open sexual acts, etc are obvious. But at what point do you think that the line is drawn.

    I am asking because a friend of mine shot his girlfriend in the nude. He sent the film off for neg's, and his intentions were that I would scan them for him, or he would borrow my scanner and do his own PP.

    However, the processor would not process the neg's because there was a (very) small area of pubic hair showing. My suggestion to him was to learn how to develop his own negs, or go digital. But that's not the point.

    What say you?

    What do you think, and again, please keep this tasteful, and respectful.

    Thanks,

    J.:confused:
     
  2. mJs

    mJs TPF Noob!

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    I think it's all about context.... manner of posing, I think it's ridiculous that the processor wouldn't do the negs over a little pubic hair. I think a lot of North Americans are too uptight about nudity... get any photo mag from Europe (there's a couple i read from France), and it usually has nude shots in it... and many 'with bush'. But they are creative shot, artful, with interesting lighting and themes. Nothing really sexual about them.
     
  3. jbylake

    jbylake Dodging the Men in Black Supporting Member

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    Kind of my way of thinking. They wouldn't even return his negatives when they discovered they were nudes, breasts, and a small amount of "pubic region".

    Man is he pissed.

    J.:confused:
     
  4. molested_cow

    molested_cow No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    I just went to Miami Beach Art Basel and one of the exhibits featured a black and white film of an orgy. I didn't really get to see it because it was too crowded, but did catch a glimpse of it. Does black and white make it "artistic"? Does the fact that it's in an art exhibition make it a legit art? I don't know. I think it all depends on what kind of message it conveys. I would say a softcore porn, when done very tastefully, can be regarded as artistic. Similarly, a artistically intended work when executed badly can become pretty tasteless. Then again, it's all up to the audience to define what they see.

    I think in your friend's case, the processor rejected it probably was because of pure liability issue. I don't even understand why would a negative processor care if he's not tasked to make scans or prints.
     
  5. jbylake

    jbylake Dodging the Men in Black Supporting Member

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    Well, MC, I'm not sure this even applies. An orgy, no matter how tastefully done, still depicts a sexual act.

    His photo's did not in anyway, go there. So the orgy thing is a judgement call, but I don't think it applies in his situation.

    J.:mrgreen:
     
  6. gian133

    gian133 TPF Noob!

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    They wont give them back. Thats just stupid.
    i completly agree wit mJs
     
  7. robbie_vlad

    robbie_vlad TPF Noob!

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    The line is different for everyone, so it's hard to define a definite boundary. Personally, as long as it isn't meant for the sole purpose of being sexual and arousing, it can be artistic.

    This is illegal isn't it? They are pretty much stealing his artwork, to which he has artistic ownership of.
     
  8. c.cloudwalker

    c.cloudwalker TPF Noob!

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    Nude vs. Pornography... that's a tough one. Here in the US we are obsessed yet uptight with sex and things become porn very easily. In France (where I lived for quite a few years) sex is a much more natural part of life so that fewer things get the porn label.

    Good photo examples of the problem are David Hamilton whose work is seen here and in the UK as kiddie porn by quite a few people but accepted as just art in France and a lot of other countries. Same with Sally Mann whose work is beautiful. Hamilton bores me to tears btw.

    So, anyway, tasteful nudes should have no problem at a retail processor unless you get the idiot from hell behind the counter. In a recent case of misguided holier-than-thou stupidity, a couple lost their kids to child protective services thanks to a Walmart employee. They are now suing Walmart and I sure hope they win.

    And I have to admit that suing was the first thing on my mind when you mentioned the processor would not give your friend his film back. I would certainly talk to an attorney.
     
  9. wescobts

    wescobts TPF Noob!

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    I guess it is in the eye of the beholder, I saw a picture of a woman from the small of her back to her shoulder blades, nothing else, and it was the biggest turn on WOW !! and I have seen open shots of the pubic region and found it just desperate. Class and good taste is very hard to define, but in your friends case, i feel the developer was going too far.
     
  10. jbylake

    jbylake Dodging the Men in Black Supporting Member

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    As far as legal issues are concerned, all he has is a civil case. That requires hiring a lawyer, both in this state and a liason lawyer in the state of the the processor. It requires $$$$ to do this, with no lawyer willing to take it as a "contigency" case, as there is no guarantee of a "payoff" for the lawyer.

    As far as I know, but am not sure, the film has been destroyed. But not sure. The processor, according to my friend offered a roll of replacement 35mm film.

    I would like to reveal the processor's name here, but am not relishing the fallout that might incur.

    Guess that's pretty much that, as far as legal issues.

    Back to the origional question, and I am going to suggest to my friend to by a basic negative development kit. So as to be discreet, he can borrow my scanner.

    So, where does the line blur on this issue of nudes vs. porn. Here's my guess..If a sexual act is obvious, either in the act or implied, it may be considered porn..but breasts and a little pubic hair...I don't think so.

    There are several Unviersities within a 50 mile or so radius here. Would the fed's raid a art class doing charcoal schetches of nudes? I doubt it. Maybe it's just a rhetorical question that I shouldn't even have brought up.

    J.:mrgreen:

    J.
     
  11. wescobts

    wescobts TPF Noob!

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    It wouldn't be the first time the "man" raided a school or place of higher learning, remember they still burn books :angry1: I would tell your friend to go digital, and consider the loss a learning experience.
     
  12. Josh66

    Josh66 Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Get a new lab. Take the film somewhere that doesn't tell you what kind of pictures you're allowed to take.

    Porn vs. art... To me, I would have to see the picture. It would be on a per image basis for me, regardless of what it showed.
     

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