Objectionable Language (To Some, Perhaps) Aboard!

[One Sister]

Okay, perhaps this was posted in the wrong place. Almost 70 people viewed this post in the General Gallery and none wanted to engage in any discussion about what they saw. I really didn’t post it for a critique on the actual photos, although I was quite impressed with what a teeny work horse that P5000 is. Could it be that you artistas are not open minded??? Nah! I’m going with I posted it in the wrong place. This is for the discussion area, right?

I raised a couple of issues in this post. One – If the image captures what may be objectionable to some, do we not even shoot it? I think all of us would agree that this is a no-brainer. Yes, we should shoot. Okay, part B – do we show it? Do we post it? I was interested in what you artist types thought about that. I would submit, if we don’t show it…why shoot it?

Issue two – I attend gatherings and events in and around the New Orleans area and always check to find out if I will be allowed to shoot. At the House of Blues, for example, I’ve been told that no cameras will be allowed only to arrive and see cameras, speedlights and monopods in attendance! I’ve also attended events where they say no flash photography only to see many others using speedlights. How do you feel about this and what is your experience?

By the way, yes Winfrey, Hayek (and she was here in the city shooting a movie…hmmm, why was she a no-show?) and Close were no-shows but Jane Fonda, Faith Hill, Jennifer Hudson and many others were. I was never a fan of Hill…but I am now! She was awesome!

Having added the above edit please read and view the following which was originally posted a couple of days ago:



Okay, I warned you...don't scroll if you think it will offend you. Having said that I really wanted to post these photos from last evening when I attended V-Day 2008, which was the 12th year of the Vagina Monologues. I had never seen it and it came to New Orleans this weekend with the headliners, Glenn Close, Salma Hayek and Opra Winfrey. Well, the headliners were a no-show, but the event was inspiring nonetheless, and some of the art was phenomenal.

I called first to see if I could take a camera and was told no "professional" cameras allowed. When I asked what this meant he couldn't tell me. However, I was afraid that they would confiscate it at the door or turn me away so I didn't want to risk it and opted to take my Coolpix P5000 instead.

First off, this isn't the first time I've been *burned* by someone telling me I can't have a camera, only to arrive and see all kinds of cameras being used. To prove it notice the speedlight flare in the center of the image. How do you all handle those camera warnings? Inquiring minds want to know. This was taken before the lights went down, well before the performance began.

I'm posting these, in part, because...well look at the quality image that dang little ps camera captures.

Okay, this is the one that you may find objectionable, but I was just amazed that in the same venue that I watch the New Orleans Hornets and the New Orleans Voodoo and where just a moment ago was advertising for Capital One THAT WORD WAS SCROLLING AROUND THE ENTIRE ARENA!! Okay, once I got past my adolescent regress I listened to the beautiful and inspiring writings being read on stage. By the way that's Shirley Knight in the black pants. She needed help getting on stage, but once there she sure did strut her stuff.

You're welcomed to give C&C or comment on the couple of issues these images may inspire. Do we not take the picture because something objectionable (to some) is in the frame? I think not! Do we follow the rules when told not to bring photographic equipment only to find other pros lugging their well hung glass, or do we ignore them as others seem to? I am getting tired of being the jerk who left the proper equipment at home in order to obey rules.

 

[Chibamonkey]

One Sister, you bring up some very valid points that address society as a whole, and us, as photographers.

On the first issue: Sometimes it is necessary to "push the envelope" so to speak, to jar the collective thinking, to bring up thoughts outside of the box to stimulate thought, discussion, and action.

How these photographs or images are presented, the context or intent, is up to the photographer, and the interpretation is up to the viewer. I personally feel that societal issues, especially in the last 50-75 years have been portrayed very effectively through photography with some of the images very disturbing at the time.

However, this also brings up the issue of what is appropriate, and what is not. The images that you share with us are a collection of your views of a celebration of life that has relative value to society. Again, to this viewer, I concur that this has value to society, and can appreciate this. But in this rapidly exploding information age of today, we are bombarded with imagery that may not have societal value, and can border on obscene, extremely graphic, and disturbing. By this I mean the images (both still and video) of brutal acts of murder, torture, and dismemberment that pervade the internet and email, for the sake of entertainment only.

Before anyone gets a wind up about this...I know and can appreciate our rights as artists.

On the second issue....some aspects/segments/members of society feel that the rules don't apply to them, that is why we have the problems and frustrations that you feel concerning photography equipment at events.

I will be the first to admit that I have snuck a bottle or three (or worse) into a concert at one time or another, or pushed the rules at times. If I was caught, so be it....I broke the rules. If others were caught, they broke the rules as well. Thankfully, that was a long time ago...and now I pay the high price for a beer, or drink at a concert or event.

Again, however....I am bothered more now by the incessant flashes from cameras throughout a stadium or event, it takes away from the experience, and can effect/bother the performers, etc.... Last week, at a high school jazz performance, my daughter (one of the performers) complained of the constant flash from a camera by one particular mother that had to get on the front row to take an almost constant barrage of pictures of her son. And this was in a auditorium that requests no flash photography.

Just my $1.50 worth....oh, by the way....good pics

 

[One Sister]

Well, well, well Chibamonkey, you are one brave dude(ess?). I appreciate your thoughtful reply to what I did think were valid topics of conversation, especially in a forum such as this. But of the very many who viewed this post (in two different threads in two different places) no one cared enough to weigh in. That surprised me. I wondered why. I still wonder why you're the only one.

Of course you're right about the rules of attending different functions, but the promise of possible revenues from an excellent capture (not that I can create one yet, but hey, it could happen ) tempts me, especially when I see others doing it. Remember, where I live there are many opportunities to shoot well known figures doing their thing. I just wondered how others handled such things. Did they risk it? When traveling to different countries I always find out how to say "May I take your picture?" in their native language. In this country I would absolutely refuse to chase anyone for a photo and I wouldn't care how much money I could make. Brad Pit and Angelina Jolie are neighbors now (not really, they live in the quarter but they are close anyway ) and their images could be captured fairly easily. No one does that to them. They're left alone and I'm proud to be from a city that allows that to happen.

On the issue of what's objectionable, whew, that's a huge can of worms, but whom else to discuss it with than thousands of photographers, right? Although these pics certainly can't hold a candle to some truly objectionable material (I've been looking at many images here for a couple of weeks now and truth be told I have seen some that I thought were objectionable...to me...but that's just me…and I would risk my life to support their right to post or publish) I think we must support everyone’s rights because how can you or I be so sure that what we think is objectionable is objectionable. Who the heck decides that anyway?

As I vacillated about posting these images and consulted those around me (they strongly advised against posting) I finally arrived at the fact that it was silly not to. This was a well attended and respectable event that was well covered by all manner of media and their images (some not as good as mine and some much better) were published. I was curious as to how an international group such as you would respond.

In this age of the ever present proper police, those who are sure that their way is the only way, it’s a little scary. I could easily be called un American, and we know where that could lead. If we all succumbed to what’s proper we will cease to be inspired.

And hey, how 'bout that P5000, huh?! It's a good thing to take if you don't want to lug equipment around?!

Thanks again for your post!

 

[TheLostPhotographer]

I hate that font/typeface.

You trying to be different, or summat?

If the image captures what may be objectionable to some, do we not even shoot it?

What? What have you captured that inspires any emotion???

Issue Two

Get a brain.



I'm only surprised that I bothered to reply.

 

[One Sister]

So let's see, you hate my font face, so I should shut up...I guess.

And you say you were not inspired to any emotion? Hey bud, there's plenty of emotion in your post, why it's downright venomous.

Apparently, the "Get a brain" remark meant that you thought this discussion should cease, and yet you chose to get in it yourself. I think that means that you think you must approve of the conversation. Sheesh, no one told me that when I signed up. I believe you're the one I was referring to when I said police. Thanks for showing up as an illustration.

There goes my theory that photographers are people who think about issues regarding to imaging and all manner of subjects that those images inspire. I'll keep looking...

 

[kundalini]

Okay, perhaps this was posted in the wrong place. Almost 70 people viewed this post in the General Gallery and none wanted to engage in any discussion about what they saw.

Some cold hard facts for you. I looked back on my last 18 posts with pictures and thought this might make you feel better.

Of the last 18 posts that I originated, I received 131 replies out of 4,176 views. Of those 18 posts, only 7 hit double digit replies and if I had bothered to look further, the reason I had those 7 in double digits was probably because I bumped the thread or I replied multiple times to those that bothered to make a comment. If I let things like the number of views versus the number of replies bother me, I would have much more grey hair than I already have.

I looked at the other thread you posted of this event and honestly, I didn't see the need to comment on the photos. They only recorded an event that someone had attended, not much more than that. The fact that a few "dirty words" (in multiple languages) were on display in the last photo were insignificant. It was the "Vagina Monologue" FFS. If that was to evoke some great emotion or begin a philisophical discussion on obsenity, it failed. Not your fault. Perhaps it's just a non-issue to some people and they are comfortable in their own position of the matter.

The decision to take / not to take a camera when you already inquired and given the pat answer of "No", is yours to make. The decision whether to post those photos is still your decision. Personally, I would not have hauled my gear around to this event, but may have taken a P&S as you did. I have been to so many places/events/whatever without a camera it's not funny. Thankfully my brain still registers and can recall the emotion I had in the past. I don't necessarily need a photo for every moment in my life.

I'm not sure what TheLostPhotographer was talking about either with the comment "Get a brain." and consider it out of order because it was extremely ambigeous and not beneficial to the discussion at hand.

Keep shooting.

BTW, I'm not a fan of the font or color from the first post either.

 

[abraxas]

I didn't read it until it got here. The font face is awkward.

Whatever, do what you like.

Maybe you'd know the answer to this-

How come people get so pissed off about getting flipped-off? I mean, nationally, the middle finger won't be seen in print or on TV. How stupid is that? It's just a finger, albiet represents an opinion. But it's just an opinion.

I always felt that if you have never got the finger in traffic, you aren't living even close to your potential. In California, that's how we stay connected- There's a lot of people out here.

Does anyone go to a concert just for the performance? You'd almost think they had bare-naked vaginas on stage.

 

[MarcusM]

hehe...the hated Comic Sans font. There is actually a movement online to try to get people to quit using it:

http://bancomicsans.com/home.html

I personally hate it myself also, but I wouldn't have commented on it had so many others not brought it up and made such a huge issue out of it.

Back to the main topic at hand, as others stated, I don't think the pictures you posted really do a good job of exemplifying the objectionable photos that you are describing.

The 1st shot is your typical snapshot of an audience at some random large event. No objections there.

The 2nd shot is another snapshot of a stage at some random event. If you hadn't described the event, I would never have known what the type characters stood for, but if I had I wouldn't have cared, they are not offensive to me.

The 3rd shot would be the only shot that might be considered "objectionable", but even that is pushing it. So it's got the "C" word, I'm sure anyone with internet access has seen photos 100 times more objectionable than this.

But to answer your questions, yes, I think it is perfectly fine to shoot objectionable events, excluding a few that chibamonkey mentioned, but even then, there are still some pretty powerful famous photos throughout history that have been taken of murders and such. I think it just really depends on the situation.

As for the bringing cameras, I wouldn't risk bringing an SLR either if they tell you they're not allowed. Not like you can hide that and a few lenses under your coat.

 

[One Sister]

People, people, people. Enough with the font already. I just grabbed a font to depict two different postings at two different times. I can't believe that is what is focused upon here.

I acknowledged that these pics were not great photojournalism. Notice where I posted them...in the discussion area. It was for discussion. I was willing to let the whole thing die until it appeared someone did want to discuss societal mores (thanks Chibamonkey). I didn't realize I would be attacked for posting. The very mature and super intellegent TheLostPhotographer called me brainless for posting and we're talking about fonts. Frankly, I'm quite surprised by the reaction.

abraxas, great point about only a finger, by the way. There's something to discuss.

Okay, MarcusM, if it's not objectionable to you, then great. Never mind.

Apparently you don't know what the Vagina Monologues are. I assumed that some in this audience would know a little something, I was wrong.

Dang! I won't make this mistake again. Where am I????!!! :stun:

 

[Rick Waldroup]

Why do you assume that most of us do not know what the Vagina Monologues are?

I saw the HBO version that aired in the late 90's. I have never seen a live version.

 

[MarcusM]

People, people, people. Enough with the font already. I just grabbed a font to depict two different postings at two different times. I can't believe that is what is focused upon here.

I acknowledged that these pics were not great photojournalism. Notice where I posted them...in the discussion area. It was for discussion. I was willing to let the whole thing die until it appeared someone did want to discuss societal mores (thanks Chibamonkey). I didn't realize I would be attacked for posting. The very mature and super intellegent TheLostPhotographer called me brainless for posting and we're talking about fonts. Frankly, I'm quite surprised by the reaction.

abraxas, great point about only a finger, by the way. There's something to discuss.

Okay, MarcusM, if it's not objectionable to you, then great. Never mind.

Apparently you don't know what the Vagina Monologues are. I assumed that some in this audience would know a little something, I was wrong.

Dang! I won't make this mistake again. Where am I????!!! :stun:

LOL, wow, yea, I don't really know what the Vagina Monologues are. I've heard about it but don't really know what it's all about. Guess I've never really cared too much.

Great for you that you're so enlightened.

 

[Village Idiot]

Drop the F bomb a lot. I also use a lot of other words the some people wouldn't deem appropriate. My peers use all these words though. I don't see **** being offensive. Especially if you're British.

 

[One Sister]

LOL, wow, yea, I don't really know what the Vagina Monologues are. I've heard about it but don't really know what it's all about. Guess I've never really cared too much.

Great for you that you're so enlightened.

Look, I didn't want this to be an expose' on my enlightenment. I'm sorry (oh yeah, waaaaaaaay sorry) for having brought it up. I admire your work, MarcusM, so I believe I'll get back into the galleries to view and learn and keep my enlightened a** out of this discussion area.

Drop the F bomb a lot. I also use a lot of other words the some people wouldn't deem appropriate. My peers use all these words though. I don't see **** being offensive. Especially if you're British.

Thanks for your civil reply Village Idiot. Ordinarily I would love to continue to talk about what is offensive and what isn't to different groups based upon...what?...race?...gender?...culture?...religion?...national origin?...region? (remember abraxas's comment about a finger and how innocuous it is in CA), but this has turned ugly and mean spirited. I admire your work as well, Village, so I believe I'll back out of this muck to view more of it.

Thank you too, Chibamonkey, for your valiant attempt at intelligent discourse. It's at shame that someone as unenlightened as TheLostPhotographer (remember, he has admitted to being banned from two other forums for being obnoxious at best) felt the need to throw some name-calling into the fray and effectively heading off civil and meaningful conversation and exchange of ideas in lieu of inane chatter about my throw-away use of an unpopular font.

Have at it, folks.

 

[kundalini]

Hey Rick!

I guess you and I are just chopped liver..... ^^everybody else gets a mention^^....

 

[Alex_B]

People, people, people. Enough with the font already. I just grabbed a font to depict two different postings at two different times. I can't believe that is what is focused upon here.

Well, we are focussed here on design and graphics and layout, since these are things very closely related to photography. So you should not be amazed that people look even at fonts with a critical eye

Apparently you don't know what the Vagina Monologues are. I assumed that some in this audience would know a little something, I was wrong.

And now you should not assume that people in here have not heard about them. We have a very broad experience and knowledge base in here. Just not everyone knows everything. I am sure I could tell you many things you yourself do not know.
But it does not matter, since not knowing is not a sin. And everyone's interests lie in different fields. What is important for me, might be totally irrelevant for you.