Oh no....

white · Sep 2, 2010

Man, I'm nervous just reading this ...

Good luck, and may the force be with you. :greenpbl:

kundalini · Sep 2, 2010

I hope my previous post wasn't too disheartening but provoked some inner dialogue.

BUUUTTT, I just had a brainstorm (or brainfart, you decide). I don't know how long you have before the wedding(s) day, but hopefully it's long enough to get in some practice. This weekend would be great.

Get yourself together 4 adults as Bs & Gs. Find a similar venue if you can't shoot in the one that it's supposed to be in. Take the gear you have and put on your determined photogs face. Practice the ceremony as if it were live.

Edit the best images and a few of the average. Then start a 'misstwinklytoes tips, tricks and tutorials for weddings' thread. As much traffic as this thread has fostered, I'm sure that one will give you a head start in the right direction.

As an added bonus for ideas..... and just to inform your client, show her prints of the RAW image and one that has global edits only of the practice session. This will give a reasonable expectation of the results. Then do a premium edit to blow her socks off. This one is of course would be at a premium charge.

misstwinklytoes · Sep 2, 2010

That is a very good idea. I don't know of where I could get in good practice, and I'm not sure of the lighting anyway.

She did say that the church had spotlights that we could use, although I'm not entirely sure how that help unless I just wanted to underexpose the background. >.<

I am still learning here, but I've made that as clear as I can, I think.

astroskeptic · Sep 2, 2010

misstwinklytoes,

It seems like the vast majority here is making worst-case assumptions about the bride (who doesn't strike me as a bridezilla at all by your description) and other things. A risk you run from spending a lot of time here is overexposure to a certain perfectionist mentality that leads to photo paralysis. Happily, you're not giving in to that. Just manage expectations effectively, which you seem to be doing. Good luck!

ababysean · Sep 2, 2010

I'm going to be honest.
I think she is looking for someone to do 3000 dollar work for 400 dollars. IMO, 400 dollars is still not "cheap" She is going to be @#$^ing that she "paid" you 400 dollars and got @#$^.
I have only seen the pictures you have taken of your son on the balcony of your apartment.
Take him to the church you will be shooting in and practice there....

bigtwinky · Sep 2, 2010

Havent read through all the posts, but I;ll put in my two cents...

If you are totally uncomfortable doing it, then dont do it. If you are just nervous, then do it. Everyone is nervous.

We all have to start somewhere, right? So why not start here for you? Make your skill and expectations really really clear ON PAPER! Get a nice contract that explains your lack of experience bla bla bla.
Make sure it details the price and exactly what you are giving them (I suggest images on a DVD). Put in there that you are not responsible for archiving the pictures once they are handed over to the client, minor retouching is done, etc etc... the contract is the key.

While I understand a wedding is a one time event, if someone has seen your work and you have been 100% clear about skill and apprehensiveness and they STILL want you, do it.

pgriz · Sep 2, 2010

Probably a stupid question, but are there going to be any rehearsals? If so, taking some shots during the rehearsal will probably let you know how the main event will go... Plus, it may give more opportunity for unguarded and candid moments...

Bitter Jeweler · Sep 2, 2010

It is pretty interesting when you are making a contract for a business transaction, to make sure the client understands how bad you might be.

kundalini · Sep 2, 2010

misstwinklytoes said:
No, I don't want to rent equipment unless I absolutely must.

To be honest, this might be an opportune time to rent some equipment. It would offer the chance to check out some gear that you have on your Wish List. Even if you get the $400 charge for your work, you could mentally think of the work as pro bono..... you know, apprenticeship, for the experience, paying your dues. Take a portion of it and put into savings, but take the opportunity to splurge on your hobby just a wee bit.

LensRentals.com isn't outrageous for pricing and are supposed to be well respected. Surely there are others, possibly locally.
LensRentals.com - Rent a Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS
LensRentals.com - Rent a Canon Speedlite 580EX II

pgriz · Sep 2, 2010

Bitter Jeweler said:
It is pretty interesting when you are making a contract for a business transaction, to make sure the client understands how bad you might be.

Yes, but if you look at the fine print with service contracts (say, from real contractors), the language covering the downside is pretty extensive. It's all about managing expectations. In this case, it says that the upside is pretty good pictures for a very low price, and the downside is potentially very few good pictures for the same very low price.

Taylor510ce · Sep 2, 2010

I thoroughly agree with those who recommended a thorough contract. Make sure you are covered in all unforseen circumstances. Make sure it clearly states your arrangement for the pictures. If she argues that you were doing "work for hire" type stuff then she could argue that all of the pictures are owned by her. If she is unwilling to sign or agree to anything ( assuming its fairly reasonable like all of this is ) then I would walk.

As for the fee, I am no pro, but then again, neither are you. So I wouldn't charge a crazy amount. The whole reason she responded to your ad is because she is looking for a low priced alternative. In a way you are buying experience by not charging her that much. If you DO need to rent equipment though, I would definately charge that to her, but again I wouldn't go too overboard. The package deal is a nice idea, but in this day and age, with scanners, make sure you don't have someone thats going to buy one package and then scan and print to their hearts content, then you aren't going to make much off those prints. So make sure you get a decent amount up front so that even if you don't sell many prints, its still worth your while.

I would just look at it like this ( and this is just personal ) and since its not really a PRO gig, because you are going into it as a "cheap amatuer alternative".

I make about $20 an hour at my day job not counting any overtime rates. So if it was 8-10 hours, I would say I would normally make about $200-225 at my day job. So if I asked for $300-$400, thats a pretty good days work for doing something that you kinda LIKE doing anyway. However, that doesn't account for editing time, but I would factor that into the cost of the prints. It also doesn't account for anything extra like if I needed to rent a tux or anything like that, or drive a long distance to the wedding, meet for a rehearsal, take engagement photos, etc etc.

ababysean · Sep 2, 2010

So does anyone have one of these, "I *might* suck at wedding photography" contracts avaliable? hehe I'd like to read it

misstwinklytoes · Sep 2, 2010

Oh brother.

Taylor510ce · Sep 2, 2010

It doesn't have to be a "I suck at photography" release...It can just state exactly WHAT the client will get for their money. How many hours, who will retain copyright to the pictures. You can add something about not being responsible for unforseen problems. It can state a fee for cancellation ( what if it pours down rain and its an outdoor wedding and you invest money in renting gear and clothes and clear your schedule and they cancel on you? ) It can also have an indemnity clause if you see fit to cover any losses or damages to your gear. ( like if someones drunk uncle throws booze on your gear ) It can have whatever you see fit. The big thing is just making it very clear, getting both parties signature and a witnesses signature.

supraman215 · Sep 2, 2010

kundalini said:
I hope my previous post wasn't too disheartening but provoked some inner dialogue.

BUUUTTT, I just had a brainstorm (or brainfart, you decide). I don't know how long you have before the wedding(s) day, but hopefully it's long enough to get in some practice. This weekend would be great.

Get yourself together 4 adults as Bs & Gs. Find a similar venue if you can't shoot in the one that it's supposed to be in. Take the gear you have and put on your determined photogs face. Practice the ceremony as if it were live.

Edit the best images and a few of the average. Then start a 'misstwinklytoes tips, tricks and tutorials for weddings' thread. As much traffic as this thread has fostered, I'm sure that one will give you a head start in the right direction.

As an added bonus for ideas..... and just to inform your client, show her prints of the RAW image and one that has global edits only of the practice session. This will give a reasonable expectation of the results. Then do a premium edit to blow her socks off. This one is of course would be at a premium charge.

+1

I read all the posts. This is a great idea! you're going to make a lot of mistakes your first time, less your second and so on and so forth. If you make this "fake one" your first time you might get a lot of first time mistakes out of the way with no consequence.

Also like his idea of rental. borrowlens.com is also a site that rents. I assume there's no where locally to rent based on where you said you live. 70-200 would be a good one as kundalini mentioned.

If you can orchestrate this faux session and commit to it I think you'll have a better understanding of your own level of commitment to doing this as a job to make money in the future.