Ohio deputy shot a news photographer

Discussion in 'Articles of Interest' started by Timppa, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. vintagesnaps

    vintagesnaps Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    6,142
    Likes Received:
    1,778
    Location:
    US
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    Maybe the reason I had a hard time finding it is because there were a baker's dozen new crime reports/stories just today on one of the Dayton new websites. This is already 'old' news. Today's Cincinnati news was about a suspicious package at the federal courthouse (which turned out to be nothing). Full moon and nice weather.

    You're posting info. from elsewhere Wade; there was stuff in that tabloid that is not mentioned here locally on several news sites I looked at (TV news and newspapers). A lot of local info. doesn't make it to the national reports.

    Some of what was in the tabloid was taken directly from the body cam footage; I didn't find anything about what was in his 'file' because that hasn't been released. I'm not going thru the rest of it again; if you want to know what happened look at Dayton or Springfield news reports.


     
  2. Destin

    Destin Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2010
    Messages:
    2,862
    Likes Received:
    661
    Location:
    Western New York
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    So you have the superpower of being able to determine someone's intent? You can read minds?

    There are precisely zero reasons for an individual to be across the street from a police officer and pulling out a weapon from their vehicle. Their actual intent is irrelevant. The action of removing a long gun from your vehicle while across from a police officer on a traffic stop automatically causes perceived ill intent. The officer can't read minds and will absolutely assume you intend to cause him harm, and you'll get shot. Every. Single. Time.

    It's sad and unfortunate that it wasn't a weapon in this case. But the officer didn't know that when he pulled the trigger.

    Maybe he acted prematurely. Maybe he didn't. Again, none of us were there and we don't know exactly what happened.
     
  3. vintagesnaps

    vintagesnaps Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    6,142
    Likes Received:
    1,778
    Location:
    US
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    The photographer actually said he didn't 'hear' a warning not that there was no warning; in one report it says the officer flashed his lights, etc. It seems unclear what was accurate; I didn't hear that mentioned on the Dayton news.

    Sometimes in early reports of an incident there may be mention of what apparently occurred or what a witness may have thought was heard or seen and it's later clarified. Some of it is unclear or may be inaccurate. In one case it's just one sentence and how it was worded that makes info. relayed elsewhere inaccurate or incomplete.

    edit - The CBS report seems consistent with local news here; the LA Times used the AP report which does also. Some of the others aren't so much. I said the tabloid made some of it up because they reported stuff I couldn't find and they didn't give a source so who knows where they found the info. or how much was accurate or how much was embellished, etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Gary A.

    Gary A. Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2014
    Messages:
    18,347
    Likes Received:
    5,871
    Location:
    Southern California
    You do not use deadly force if you do not know. (period)

    In the split second or two or thirty ... the deputy should have been trained and have the temperament to use good judgement. He didn't and luckily the deputy was a bad shot otherwise he'd be facing manslaughter. The deputy made a mistake, it could have been a fatal mistake ... no excuses ... he must own his mistake(s) and if it is the department's fault ... they must own up to it.

    Let's just say it was an open carry state and by an odd set of circumstances the reverse happened and a civilian accidentally shot a deputy ... do you think the department and the DA would let it slide with a civilian defense of ...

    "I thought it was a weapon ..."
    "I have a stressful job ..."
    "It was dark ..."
    "I'm just human and I made a mistake ..."

    I think the department and the DA would be all over the civilian shooter. We all make mistakes. Whether big or small we all have to own those mistakes.

    I am not anti-law enforcement, personally, I feel that law enforcement and teachers should be some of the highest paid positions in our society. When I need a cop, or when I walk around with a tripod, I want that PhD cop to think before reacting.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Gary A.

    Gary A. Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2014
    Messages:
    18,347
    Likes Received:
    5,871
    Location:
    Southern California
    The suspect was across the street. The suspect was armed with a tripod. The deputy incorrectly ascertained the situation and the danger. The deputy was wrong. The deputy needs to own up to his mistake.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Gary A.

    Gary A. Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2014
    Messages:
    18,347
    Likes Received:
    5,871
    Location:
    Southern California
    According to the Daily Mail article it was Grimm, the photographer who flash his lights at the deputy as well as waved. Nowhere in the Daily Mail article did it mention that either the shooter or the person shot issued a verbal warning.

    ... "Grimm is heard trying to explain that he waved at Shaw and flashed his car lights, but he also takes the blame for what happened and tries to protect Shaw."
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. pendennis

    pendennis No longer a newbie, moving up!

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2014
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    Dearborn, MI
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    This is Monday morning, and no one is a position to make a judgement one way or the other.

    The problem with your training statement, is that training only goes so far. It is never designed to cover every contingency, every condition.

    There's an old adage out there that states: No plan of battle ever survives initial contact... It's also true of training. While the officer is supposed to take training to the field, the training never covers all scenarios, and the officer has to ad lib from the day he/she takes to the field.
     
  8. smoke665

    smoke665 TPF Supporters Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    4,434
    Likes Received:
    1,789
    Location:
    Alabama
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    You know you'd be warmly welcomed if you came for a visit, if I was expecting you or even a surprise visit during reasonable hours . However if you were to break down my door at 3 am and enter my house, I would most definitely use deadly force, without first seeking to determine your intentions. Since that scenario is highly unlikely to happen, I guess we don't have to worry, but the point is not everything is black and white.

    The whole police/civilian relationship is more strained then I've seen it in my lifetime. Police are rightly concerned for their safety, the 5 officers killed in Dallas, in 2016, and according to a recent Newsweek article four police officers have already been killed by ambush as of the first of July in 2017. Overall depending on who you quote officer deaths are up in 2017 between 20-30%. Do a search on under staffing, and you'll find countless articles as municipalities and states deal with lack of funding. So sometimes you don't have the best quality candidates willing to work for the money you have to pay.

    Then you have the civilian encounters which even when the police are justifiable get blown out of proportion by the media. I did read some interesting data suggesting that the number of police fatal shooting has increased substantially since 2000, but there doesn't seem to be anyone tracking the ones not justified. However, the stories travel like lighting over social media, and now you have a general population that's uneasy about being around the very people sworn to protect them.

    It's a vicious spiral that's been in the works for several years now.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. smoke665

    smoke665 TPF Supporters Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    4,434
    Likes Received:
    1,789
    Location:
    Alabama
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    Uhh, point of order, isn't this Wednesday evening??? :allteeth:
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  10. SCraig

    SCraig Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    Messages:
    6,344
    Likes Received:
    2,377
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    I've known more police officers than I can possibly remember. I've shot pistol competitions with them, I've had coffee with them. I've been to their weddings and I've been to their funerals. There are some I think the world of and there are some I can't stand to be around. But all in all I've learned one thing: They aren't monsters and they aren't Gods. They are people, just like all of us, trying to do a lousy job that most people don't want amidst a chorus of everyone second guessing every move they make. They do a good job one day and save a life, they do a bad job the next and someone gets hurt. The former is forgotten in a heartbeat but the latter lives on forever on social media. People curse them one day and the next day they are screaming for their help.

    Was this guy wrong? Probably. Did he fear for his life (which is a justifiable defense in many areas)? Without question. Will he be fed to the wolves or exonerated? I already hear the wolves howling.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  11. Jamesaz

    Jamesaz TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Phoenix,AZ.
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    I saw this report on google news I think and it caught my eye as I had an ex-wife from that town. Most surprising a place like New Carlilse has a newspaper photographer.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Gary A.

    Gary A. Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2014
    Messages:
    18,347
    Likes Received:
    5,871
    Location:
    Southern California


    LOL ... yeah, his father owns the paper. (According to the Daily Mail.)
     

Share This Page