people and bum

You have two different arguments going here. First, that they made bad decisions that got them that way and second, that they are disturbed

Although I don't feel that ALL homeless people choose to live such a lifestyle, I do believe many CHOOSE their life's path. Hence it's not like they grew up wishing to be bums. But we are making choices every second of our lives, and often times homelessness is a self destructing pattern of addiction that ultimately leads to one living on the street.

You can't deny that there is some sort of individual responsibility in certain cases.

People might have been responsible for their own situation, that doesn't make them bad or take away from their inherent humanity. If you were in an auto accident because you were driving home and hit a patch of ice, should the medics say 'what a jerk, he should have known that it might be icy and he should have been a better driver, let's just leave him in the car.' We should take care of those who are less fortunate than we and try to help them preserve what little they have left of their dignity and humanity.



I would bet though that the majority have serious psychological disease which is the main problem.

Your bet would be wrong. There are different populations of homeless and the prevalence of mental disorder is highest amongst the men, particularly older men.Since the Supreme Court decided that mental patients can not be kept against their will in institutions, many long term care institutions just had to dump these people on the street and these people don't have the ability or resources to maintain any kind of ongoing interaction with outpatient care - of it is available. In Victorian England, the mentally ill were considered sub-human and the 'gentry' used to go to the insane asylum (Bedlam Hospital, for example) to see them jump around, much as we go to the zoo.

In more enlightened times, now, no matter how odd or amusing their behavior shouldn't we accord them some dignity and not photograph them casually as an object of interest.

The point I'm making is that everyone should be treated with dignity and respect for their humanity, particularly those for whom dignity and humanity may be the absolute only things they have left that they can claim.

Lew
 
There have been lots of discussions on the web about the ethics of photographing the homeless

now, no matter how odd or amusing their behavior shouldn't we accord them some dignity and not photograph them casually as an object of interest.

it get's a good discussion going which will bring more awareness and hopefully help those that need it.
 
it get's a good discussion going which will bring more awareness and hopefully help those that need it.

Let's substitute the issue of being fat with being homeless. How would you feel if someone took an unflattering but truthful picture of an overweight you or your spouse, without permission, and posted it online and their justification for this invasion was that the unflattering image would incite discussion about weight issues?
 
There have been lots of discussions on the web about the ethics of photographing the homeless

now, no matter how odd or amusing their behavior shouldn't we accord them some dignity and not photograph them casually as an object of interest.

it get's a good discussion going which will bring more awareness and hopefully help those that need it.

Yes, I tend to agree with you WimFoto. As a PJ shooting wars and civil unrest I used to shoot people in worse situations than our homeless and I hope that it did help end the problems.

If the photos bring more awareness of the problem, I can't see it as a bad thing. It depends mostly on how it is done, imho.

Now, a movie like "Bum Fight" (not sure of the title, it's been a while since I saw it) was quite the opposite as it took advantage of the people involved, was nothing more than a circus show. Really in poor taste and the filmmaker got an earful about it. The last I heard the two main homeless men in the movie were talking about suing the filmmaker and I hope they did.
 
Let me first say, I like the colored photos. I think the bike dude is a real find, and I would totally stake out his route and experiment with settings and luck. You can see his speed - You can see he is an active guy - He's determined, and a real character. The dagger eye's don't detract from this candid, in fact they add a lot I think.

Secondly, I tried to keep this short, but homelessness is a big thing with me, as I have several close homeless friends, one of which is homeless by choice, and two of which are disabled. I've also sat down with about a dozen homeless in my city, and entered the community in a way.

To most people, on the street, the homeless are a mere annoyance. There's no shame in filtering out some of the crap and exposing the humanity, struggle, and personality in someone, even if they aren't aware of the photo. If they are aware of it, I personally wouldn't hit the shutter, and part of that is that I would much rather sit down and chat, and show some smiles and personality. (I bought an old functional rangefinder specifically for this purpose.). Whether they are aware or not, these photos bring awareness and illustrate the various homeless lifestyles and struggles.

Finally, be careful of who you give $$ to. Some are disabled, mentally or physically, but many you are just giving spending money for their weed/smoking/alcohol habit (yes, I do know homeless who can afford to be perpetually high, and I donate knowing that they do not NEED the money to live, but rather as a kind gesture to a friend).

Keep in mind my views are different as I am limited to a different limited set of experiences. I'm very familiar with the homeless community in my area, but homeless community are local communities, and each one is very unique. Homelessness in L.A. and NYC is a real horror compared to homelessness in boston and its surrounding cities.
 
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and i thought that the problem you, the_traveler, had with this photo was that you couldn't see the point of focus :)

How would you feel if someone took an unflattering but truthful picture of an overweight you or your spouse, without permission, and posted it online and their justification for this invasion was that the unflattering image would incite discussion about weight issues?

ok, so i am fat. the picture is unflattering. it is an invasion. and the picture is being posted without my permission.
my answer would be; no, i don't mind your are posting it to bring awareness to the problem of obesity. i would want to be healthier and i wouldn't want this to happen to other people.

if a person pays 5$ for a coffee, sits down on the patio to consume it, if another person lies down on the sidewalk to sleep right in front of the coffee shop. you bet i'll be taking a picture of it and if i think there's photographic value i'll post it on a forum.


Let me first say, I like the colored photos. I think the bike dude is a real find, and I would totally stake out his route and experiment with settings and luck. You can see his speed - You can see he is an active guy - He's determined, and a real character. The dagger eye's don't detract from this candid, in fact they add a lot I think.

thanks squid, i obviously agree.
 
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and i thought that the problem you, the_traveler, had with this photo was that you couldn't see the point of focus :)

ok, so i am fat. the picture is unflattering. it is an invasion. and the picture is being posted without my permission.
my answer would be; no, i don't mind your are posting it to bring awareness to the problem of obesity. i would want to be healthier and i wouldn't want this to happen to other people.

No, my point was different from that. If one is going to exploit other peoples' misfortune by taking their picture and posting it in order to do the greater good by making an editorial point, one should have two goals: some degree of technical proficiency and, if possible, making an editorial point that isn't too much of a cliche.

My initial discomfort with this picture was that it was technically so lacking that it really detracted from any point that the op was trying to make.

When I take pictures of street people I try to adhere to those principles.

I only brought up the issue about the real life of homeless people and the ethics of 'stealing' their picture when another poster tried to paint the life of a homeless person as somehow better than the people who were sitting drinking coffee.
 
If one is going to exploit other peoples' misfortune by taking their picture and posting it in order to do the greater good by making an editorial point, one should have two goals: some degree of technical proficiency and, if possible, making an editorial point that isn't too much of a cliche.

i disagree the_traveler. if one is taking a picture and posts it here the goals are entirely up to the person who took the photo.
those goals are not to be enforced by anyone on anybody.
 
i disagree the_traveler. if one is taking a picture and posts it here the goals are entirely up to the person who took the photo.
those goals are not to be enforced by anyone on anybody.

You're right.
Those are my goals and I don't have the right to impose them on anyone.

The only thing I can do is to judge the picture on how well it succeeds in my eyes and give the poster honest feedback.
 
i would be interested to see your photos of homeless people, you got any?
thanks,
wim
People_006.jpg

edited because photo location moved 12/24/09
 
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thanks for posting brian t.

my eye goes to the red neon signs and the people in the restaurant.

some cropping to bring attention to the guy sitting on the sidewalk will do this image good imo.
 
thanks for posting brian t.

my eye goes to the red neon signs and the people in the restaurant.

some cropping to bring attention to the guy sitting on the sidewalk will do this image good imo.
You're right. When I look at this photo, I should've gotten lower so the converging lines of the restaurant wall pointed to the man's head. The only line that runs through the head is the sidewalk edge, so I cropped it to focus on the man:

4193934630_f6ee0748a6_o.jpg
 
thanks for posting brian t.

my eye goes to the red neon signs and the people in the restaurant.

some cropping to bring attention to the guy sitting on the sidewalk will do this image good imo.

You're right. When I look at this photo, I should've gotten lower so the converging lines of the restaurant wall pointed to the man's head. The only line that runs through the head is the sidewalk edge, so I cropped it to focus on the man:

4193934630_f6ee0748a6_o.jpg

Sorry WimFoto, I think the original crop was better. And exactly because of your reaction. The sign is more attractive (to the eye) than the man sitting on the sidewalk. Homeless people are invisible type of thing.

The second version is a bad photo of a homeless man. The first one is a statement about homelessness, imho.
 
Sorry WimFoto, I think the original crop was better. And exactly because of your reaction. The sign is more attractive (to the eye) than the man sitting on the sidewalk. Homeless people are invisible type of thing.

The second version is a bad photo of a homeless man. The first one is a statement about homelessness, imho.
Hmm, that's a good point. The original photo is more driven by the subject matter -- being the homeless man juxtaposed with the two people walking passed and the person inside the restaurant ignoring the homeless. While the cropped version highlights only the homeless man, with very little contrast to his surroundings. I supposed street photography benefits more from the subject matter than the technical advisory. Kinda like WimFoto's original homeless man in front of the Starbucks photo might not be the most technically perfect, but the message (rich to poor) speaks more to people.

I've done very little street photography. In fact, this homeless man photo is the only one I've got that is decent. But I've learned a lot just from this thread.
 

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