Photo Processor

[Ysarex]

It is only destructive if you save the the changes. If instead you Save As it creates a new file with you finished edit and the original raw is not changed at all.

No raw converter re-writes the original raw file. I wasn't suggesting that. Affinity Photo will not save any of your raw editing work such that you can re-edit without re-doing all the work. For example if you use ACR in Photoshop and make adjustments to a raw file ACR saves all your work in a sidecar XMP file. If you re-open that raw file in ACR a week later all the work you did is saved.

In Affinity if you make adjustments to a raw file using Affinity's raw processing software the second you click the Develop tab Affinity moves you to an RGB file and discards all your raw editing work. Re-open that raw file a minute later and everything you did is gone.

Joe

 

[Ysarex]

Correct, Gryphon. He's wrong. I just went back to do what he said I couldn't do. Affinity is never destructive. You can't save the raw file. You can't export it from the export persona. When you save the file it is saved as an Affinity file. It contains every pixel of the raw file with whatever editing was done in the Develop persona.

No. It does not. If it did you could do what I originally suggested -- you can't.

You can bring it back in at will, choose an RGB layer and put it back into the Develop persona for more raw editing. The original raw file is never changed and never used after development. Completely non destructive. In fact, even though I don't go back for more editing after development, I like the system better than one that overwrites the raw file.

No other raw conversion software overwrites raw file data. It's not possible.

It isn't a shortcoming of Affinity. It is a better system.

It is backwards and destructive and forces you to save huge RGB files to do any kind of progressive editing over time. If when you've completed an edit you don't save those huge RGB files and only save a JPEG then Affinity gets really destructive forcing you to start from scratch, if you decide a change is in order.

 

[fmw]

Correct, Gryphon. He's wrong. I just went back to do what he said I couldn't do. Affinity is never destructive. You can't save the raw file. You can't export it from the export persona. When you save the file it is saved as an Affinity file. It contains every pixel of the raw file with whatever editing was done in the Develop persona.

No. It does not. If it did you could do what I originally suggested -- you can't.

You can bring it back in at will, choose an RGB layer and put it back into the Develop persona for more raw editing. The original raw file is never changed and never used after development. Completely non destructive. In fact, even though I don't go back for more editing after development, I like the system better than one that overwrites the raw file.

No other raw conversion software overwrites raw file data. It's not possible.

It isn't a shortcoming of Affinity. It is a better system.

It is backwards and destructive and forces you to save huge RGB files to do any kind of progressive editing over time. If when you've completed an edit you don't save those huge RGB files and only save a JPEG then Affinity gets really destructive forcing you to start from scratch, if you decide a change is in order.

 

[tecboy]

Xfinity has an awesome deal. $49.99 per month for one year agreement.

 

[fmw]

Correct, Gryphon. He's wrong. I just went back to do what he said I couldn't do. Affinity is never destructive. You can't save the raw file. You can't export it from the export persona. When you save the file it is saved as an Affinity file. It contains every pixel of the raw file with whatever editing was done in the Develop persona.

No. It does not. If it did you could do what I originally suggested -- you can't.

You can bring it back in at will, choose an RGB layer and put it back into the Develop persona for more raw editing. The original raw file is never changed and never used after development. Completely non destructive. In fact, even though I don't go back for more editing after development, I like the system better than one that overwrites the raw file.

No other raw conversion software overwrites raw file data. It's not possible.

It isn't a shortcoming of Affinity. It is a better system.

It is backwards and destructive and forces you to save huge RGB files to do any kind of progressive editing over time. If when you've completed an edit you don't save those huge RGB files and only save a JPEG then Affinity gets really destructive forcing you to start from scratch, if you decide a change is in order.

I did go back and do what you said I couldn't do. I loaded the affinity file and put it back in the develop persona and edited it some more. I gave it enough tint to turn the sky pink. If you save your work as a jpeg and the software doesn't overwrite the raw file, then it had to create a raw-editable file somewhere. That is what Affinity does. When you save your work you get a file with all the formerly edited raw data that you can go back and edit more. I think we are arguing over nothing. All you have to do is save out the file and your are good to go for the future. If you don't want to do that, then don't use Affinity. I fail to see the issue. Sorry. It is OK for you not to like what I use and prefer to use what you use. That is why industry gives us choices. But I don't think it was inappropriate to comment on Affinity without explaining the way it handles future-raw-editable files. I think you are just argumentative.

 

[Derrel]

I like my current bought-and-owned-by-me version of Lightroom as my main image editing application. It's fast and easy for me to use. After 20 years or so, I let Photoshop lapse, and last summer I cancelled the monthly rental fee for the right to use Lightroom CC and Photoshop CC, and just have my older bought-and-owned-by-me version of both Lightroom and of Photoshop on my big Mac, when I need Photoshop, I have an older bought-and-owned copy available (which I have only very,very,very very seldom used the past few years). As I've gotten more adept with Lightroom's tools, I've found it to be better, and faster, and easier to use than Photoshop. I do not want to generate a ton of large "work files" that are 128 or 136 megabytes, when I can work on filkes and have Lightroom make small,compact lists of the changes I've made, averaging under 32k per file. When I am satisfied, I export a .JPG file of whatever I need. My RAW files are left un-touched.

I'm not really all that into image manipulation; for me, fairly simple exposure adjustments, rotating a degree or two, cropping, and applying lens correction profiles, maybe a bit of chromatic aberration removal or fill light or highliught recovery, if needed, curves adjustment, some burning in, a bit of dodging, tooth whitening, iris improvement, things like those, all of those operations (and more, if needed!) are handled quickly and easily by Lightroom. My personal preference toward using Lightroom over PS is more a matter of the tool set and the workflow for me, as opposed to the clunky,old-school way Photoshop works.

For those with older copies of Photoshop or Lightroom, there's the option of using Adobe's free DNG Converter software, and using that to convert camera-maker RAW files to .DNG files, and then using PS or Lightroom to open the .DNG files; I myself have resorted to this method three times over the years, when my Photoshop was incompatible with brand-new cameras, or when my brand new cameras wwere incompatible with the old softweare I happened to be using at the time; most recently THIS veryweek,in fact, I needed to download a new Adobe DNG Converter app for my Nikon D610's .NEF files, which my older version of Lightroom could not read.

Anyway...OP--welcome to TPF!

 

[Ysarex]

I did go back and do what you said I couldn't do.

No you did not. I said re-open the original raw file.

I loaded the affinity file and put it back in the develop persona and edited it some more.

The aphoto file is not the original raw file it is an RGB image file. When you opened that aphoto file in the Develop module the Temp and Tint values defaulted to zero; your original Temp and Tint values from the raw file were not saved and no longer accessible.

It matters. Setting WB for a raw file that has not been demosaiced is a different process than changing the color of an RGB file. You get different results. You can't do what I said you couldn't do -- which any other raw processor makes possible.

I gave it enough tint to turn the sky pink. If you save your work as a jpeg and the software doesn't overwrite the raw file, then it had to create a raw-editable file somewhere. That is what Affinity does. When you save your work you get a file with all the formerly edited raw data that you can go back and edit more.

No you don't. The aphoto file is as I said an RGB image file and contains NONE of the original raw data. It is editable yes, but editing that aphoto RGB file is not equivalent to editing the original raw file. When the raw file is demosaiced and the RGB file is created procedures take place that can not be undone in the RGB file (input sharpening for example).

I think we are arguing over nothing. All you have to do is save out the file and your are good to go for the future.

No you're not good to go for the future. Returning to edit an RGB file is not the same as returning to the raw original to make an edit change. Editing possibilities are short changed and editing processes are different and restricted.

If you don't want to do that, then don't use Affinity. I fail to see the issue. Sorry. It is OK for you not to like what I use and prefer to use what you use. That is why industry gives us choices. But I don't think it was inappropriate to comment on Affinity without explaining the way it handles future-raw-editable files.

"Future-raw-editable files" -- there is no such thing. An Affinity aphoto file is an RGB image file basically the same as the PSD or TIFF file that Photoshop ACR or LR creates when it converts a raw file.

I think you are just argumentative.

I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just explaining how it works.

My original comment about Affinity stands unqualified: Affinity provides raw file processing and demosaicing but unlike all other raw conversion software Affinity alone does not save the raw processing work you do. It generates a huge RGB file (aphoto) that you can continue to edit but if you re-open the raw file any editing that you did with the raw processing tools prior to demosaicing is discarded and you have to start over.

This is not an incidental issue. It matters a lot and should be considered carefully by anyone who considers using Affinity if they also save raw files. ONE: the fact that Affinity forces a destructive raw processing workflow means you may be forced to go back and re-do hours of image processing that any other raw converter would not force you to do. TWO: disk storage space using Affinity can be a problem. I just processed a raw file using both Affinity and LR (just as an example). The original raw file is 27mb. The Affinity aphoto RGB file is 107mb for a grand total of 134mb saved to disk. In LR the processing of that file is saved to an XMP file that is 6.9kb -- that's KILOBYTES, for a grand total of 27mb saved to disk. Run the math out on that if you've got a few thousand raw files to process.

Joe

 

[fmw]

Your concern is that, in order to re-edit a raw file without starting over, you have to save a larger file than you do with other programs. I got it. Again, don't use it. Sheesh.

 

[Ysarex]

Your concern is that, in order to re-edit a raw file without starting over, you have to save a larger file than you do with other programs. I got it. Again, don't use it. Sheesh.

No, that is not my concern. My concern is that Affinity does not save your raw file editing work such that you can re-open the raw file and make changes in a non-destructive workflow. Saving a 16 bit RGB image file is not an equivalent alternative. Your statement above implies saving that larger RGB file is an adequate alternative to a non-destructive raw workflow and provides equivalent access with the large file size as the only penalty. That's wrong (which I've demonstrated) and that's my concern. Bloated file size is a further complication.

Saving that RGB image file does not provide a non-destructive editing workflow. It is in fact the opposite; it's a forced destructive workflow that curtails your options and forces you to accept inferior results and/or do a lot of work over again. And for people who are looking at photo processing software and are interested in Affinity Photo that's important information to know.

Joe

 

[fmw]

Your concern is that, in order to re-edit a raw file without starting over, you have to save a larger file than you do with other programs. I got it. Again, don't use it. Sheesh.

No, that is not my concern. My concern is that Affinity does not save your raw file editing work such that you can re-open the raw file and make changes in a non-destructive workflow. Saving a 16 bit RGB image file is not an equivalent alternative. Your statement above implies saving that larger RGB file is an adequate alternative to a non-destructive raw workflow and provides equivalent access with the large file size as the only penalty. That's wrong (which I've demonstrated) and that's my concern. Bloated file size is a further complication.

Saving that RGB image file does not provide a non-destructive editing workflow. It is in fact the opposite; it's a forced destructive workflow that curtails your options and forces you to accept inferior results and/or do a lot of work over again. And for people who are looking at photo processing software and are interested in Affinity Photo that's important information to know.

Joe

You win. Feel better now? I'll get back to using my Affinity.