photographing in a mall?

[usayit]

E.g. If you were to take images on the street of people, No-one, Not even the police can ask you to leave, Your tax pays for that road, The only time the police can Forcefully ask you to leave is if you are creating an obstruction in traffic / people walking or causing harrasment.
whereas Inside a mall

If pressed, on a street, they can get you for loitering.

In my case, I tried to reason and explain to the officer that I am within my right.... I got taken for disorderly conduct. Charges got dropped hours later... when it was an inconvenience to me. Its unfair but oh well....

 

[iPhoto17]

so let me try to understand this then, since it IS an open to to the public area that is ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, i can walk in and shoot until asked to stop, but out in a public area like streets and sidewalks and parks no one has any say whatsoever whether or not i can take pictures

and under ANY circumstance to both malls and public security does NOT have the right to take my equipment or delete any photos?

 

[usayit]

so let me try to understand this then, since it IS an open to to the public area that is ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, i can walk in and shoot until asked to stop,

Technically, you need to ask permission first but the resulting photos (even when trespassing) is your property. As such, shoot first and ask questions later tends to work in favor of the photographer. It is your call...

but out in a public area like streets and sidewalks and parks no one has any say whatsoever whether or not i can take pictures

Yes... with certain restrictions according to local laws (some government buildings) and of course places in which the subject has a reasonable expectation of privacy; ie public restrooms.

and under ANY circumstance to both malls and public security does NOT have the right to take my equipment or delete any photos?

Correct. A police officer does have the right to take possession of photos and equipment as evidence if applicable. As evidence they cannot change or destroy. They do not have the right to alter said "evidence". It has to be maintained for submittal to court.

Of course, officers have ways of bending the laws.... making your life miserable... if you do not cooperate. So my suggestion is to cooperate but stand firm don't make unnecessary trouble. The only photographers that seem to have leverage are those backed by a corporation/company media when the threat of legal action is very real.

 

[iPhoto17]

so let me try to understand this then, since it IS an open to to the public area that is ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, i can walk in and shoot until asked to stop,

Technically, you need to ask permission first but the resulting photos (even when trespassing) is your property. As such, shoot first and ask questions later tends to work in favor of the photographer. It is your call...

but out in a public area like streets and sidewalks and parks no one has any say whatsoever whether or not i can take pictures

Yes... with certain restrictions according to local laws (some government buildings) and of course places in which the subject has a reasonable expectation of privacy; ie public restrooms.

and under ANY circumstance to both malls and public security does NOT have the right to take my equipment or delete any photos?

Correct. A police officer does have the right to take possession of photos and equipment as evidence if applicable. As evidence they cannot change or destroy. They do not have the right to alter said "evidence". It has to be maintained for submittal to court.

Of course, officers have ways of bending the laws.... making your life miserable... if you do not cooperate. So my suggestion is to cooperate but stand firm don't make unnecessary trouble. The only photographers that seem to have leverage are those backed by a corporation/company media when the threat of legal action is very real.

thanks for clarifying that for me, theres a historical little town near me id like to shoot in, hopefully no one bothers me

 

[JamesMason]

Correct. A police officer does have the right to take possession of photos and equipment as evidence if applicable. As evidence they cannot change or destroy. They do not have the right to alter said "evidence". It has to be maintained for submittal to court.

You guys in the U.S. get a tough deal, they cant touch your stuff here

 

[skieur]

Correct. A police officer does have the right to take possession of photos and equipment as evidence if applicable. As evidence they cannot change or destroy. They do not have the right to alter said "evidence". It has to be maintained for submittal to court.

You guys in the U.S. get a tough deal, they cant touch your stuff here

Actually that is not quite correct in the US. Police canNOT take photos or equipment as evidence UNLESS the person has been formally arrested and that is NOT possible in most situations since taking pictures is NOT illegal.

skieur

 

[JamesMason]

Actually that is not quite correct in the US. Police canNOT take photos or equipment as evidence UNLESS the person has been formally arrested and that is NOT possible in most situations since taking pictures is NOT illegal.

In that case its exactly the same here then

 

[skieur]

from IPhoto 17 "Yes... with certain restrictions according to local laws (some government buildings) and of course places in which the subject has a reasonable expectation of privacy; ie public restrooms."

Actually I have read that there are no government buildings in the US that you cannot photograph unless they are specifically listed as secret government installations such as Area 51 etc. Any local laws that ban photography outside on public property would be unconstitutional in the US.

skieur

 

[skieur]

Actually that is not quite correct in the US. Police canNOT take photos or equipment as evidence UNLESS the person has been formally arrested and that is NOT possible in most situations since taking pictures is NOT illegal.

In that case its exactly the same here then

Yes, it is the same in England, Canada and a lot of other countries. What is too often forgotten is that in most cases it is NOT illegal to take pictures anywhere with the reasonable exceptions related to voyeurism and items covered by government secrecy acts which the average person is unlikely to come into contact with.

This is covered under constitutions, charters of rights etc. as the right to self-expression and the right to enjoyment of property (camera equipment) etc.

You do however have to avoid any possibility of other charges (which most often apply to photographing people in the street), while taking pictures such as harassment by for example following a stranger around taking photos of him/her, assault by intimidating or scaring someone with your aggressive approach to shooting their picture, impeding pedestrian traffic by setting up a tripod for example in a very crowded area, or loitering if by your pressence, you are seen as discouraging customers from entering a store, for example.

Best approach is to be unobtrusive, act like a tourist, and don't spend too much time in any one area.

skieur

 

[Plato]

...you are seen as discouraging customers from entering a store, for example.

You bring up an interesting point. Many (most?) persons feel uncomfortable if a stranger is photographing them and it may truly cause them to go elsewhere to avoid the situation. That would give the authorities a lot more leeway to prevent you from taking pictures.

 

[skieur]

...you are seen as discouraging customers from entering a store, for example.

You bring up an interesting point. Many (most?) persons feel uncomfortable if a stranger is photographing them and it may truly cause them to go elsewhere to avoid the situation. That would give the authorities a lot more leeway to prevent you from taking pictures.

Perhaps true. A lot depends on how the photographer is taking pictures.

Related to loitering, approaches such as the following might lead to problems.

- working with a tripod in a location that causes pedestrian traffic to detour further away from the store display window or entrance to a particular store. The owner might call the police.

- staying in a certain location and shooting in close with a wide angle lens that disturbs some individuals.

A less obtrusive approach would be to use live view and an articulated LCD screen, a medium or long lens and pick an ideal location to shoot from, that is out of the way of pedestrians. Shooting from the shade into sunny areas also makes you less noticeable, but of course you need to set the exposure correctly.

skieur

 

[iPhoto17]

i didnt realize how much of a pain this could be, im going out in public for the first time tomorrow afternoon if its not raining in a little historic town near me, and im expecting the worst (either cops or pedestrians bothering me) even though they have no right to say anything if im on public grounds, im almost scared to go out now

 

[ErectedGryphon]

i didnt realize how much of a pain this could be, im going out in public for the first time tomorrow afternoon if its not raining in a little historic town near me, and im expecting the worst (either cops or pedestrians bothering me) even though they have no right to say anything if im on public grounds, im almost scared to go out now

I wouldn't be, especially if it is a historic town, they probably have photographers wandering their streets on a daily basis.

 

[Big]

I'm wondering just how interesting a mall is to photograph??? Yeh... I understand pictures of a 2 year old running around but I just carry a P&S for that and avoid the security all together.

Now if there is something interesting to shoot or perhaps use a backdrop, I can't see doing any sort of creative composition through a hole in a shopping bag being any fun or productive. In fact, doing stuff like that will just bring more attention from the rent-a-cops.

Other than really hot girls... I agree
I wouldn't bring my camera to the mall... Then again, I'm not that into shooting random people.

 

[iPhoto17]

i didnt realize how much of a pain this could be, im going out in public for the first time tomorrow afternoon if its not raining in a little historic town near me, and im expecting the worst (either cops or pedestrians bothering me) even though they have no right to say anything if im on public grounds, im almost scared to go out now

I wouldn't be, especially if it is a historic town, they probably have photographers wandering their streets on a daily basis.

i hope so, anytime i pass through it there doesnt seem to be many people around except for the davidson college students