Please help my decision A7Rii vs 5Dsr

[kalgra]

So I am looking for a high megapixel camera primarily for landscapes and I'm really having a hard time deciding which way to go here. I am leaning towards the Sony but I would like get get some words of wisdom from you all.

So a few things about me to consider first.
- I am a Canon shooter with a lot invested in Canon L glass and Zeiss EF mount primes. I am not interested in switching over entirely any time soon if ever.
- I primarily shoot macro, landscapes, and still life. I do not shoot sports, birds, or anything else that warrants great auto focus capabilities. Many of my most used lenses are MF only anyhow.
- I don't shoot video at all right now but might start dabbling with it in the near future. That said video not really factoring in for me at this time.

So biggest question for some of you, "Why am I considering the Sony instead of staying within the Canon ecosystem?" Below are the three main reasons listed in order of importance to me.

1. Dynamic Range (For landscapes I really like idea of being able to leave the graduated filters behind and expose for the highlights and still being able to recover the shadows really well. I prefer to stay away from bracketing for HDR when possible. For the Sony allows some of the flexibility of HDR without all the post work which I frankly am just not that familiar with.)
2. Articulating screen (Again for landscapes. I often shoot from very low perspectives and the ability to tilt the screen would be really nice for me. I have an angle finder for the Canon which works well but its very fiddly and dosnt help me when Im using exposure simulation for composition when using say a 10 stop ND filter)
3. 5 axis stabilization (The ability to shoot handheld at lower shutter speeds especialy with my Zeiss Primes that do not have IS for me is extremely attractive.)

So with all that said above you might say "Well sounds like your pretty decided whats the hangup?"

- I absolutely hate the ergonomics, control placement, and menu system of the Sony, Like I really hate it! My wife has an A6000 and I have played with the A7Rii and they are very similar.
- I dont feel like the Sony will work well for the macro work I like to do especially using it with the MPE-65mm and obviously my Canon Macro twinlite MT-24EX will not work with the Sony. Macro is still my first love in photography and I do feel like the 5Dsr will perform better here. I think Id have to say this is the biggest issue getting in the way for me, but then again I'm much more likely to do a very large print of a landscape than a bugs face, but still the ability to crop in even closer with the high megapixels is also extremely attractive.
- I lose the weather sealing with the sony. Where I live in Colorado I am more than often caught in rain and hail when hiking, weather sealing give me a lot of peace of mind.

So Anyway these are a few of my reasons for seriously considering the Sony as well as a few of my hesitations. Sorry for being so long winded. Thanks for taking the time to read through I really appreciate it as well as any comments and advice you can provide.

Cheers!
Kris

 

[table1349]

Just a couple of thoughts.

If you are not bracketing you are not producing HDR, just faux HDR. By it's very nature HDR requires a far wider range than any single image can provide.

For landscapes, still life, and Macro IS is pretty much a non starter where as a good tripod is a must.

Lastly you are not buying a camera you are buying a system. Which system suits you needs the best.

 

[Scatterbrained]

I'm a Canon shooter, and I have an A7RII. For me it was mainly about the sensor. The Canon 5Dsr is still using Canons old sensor tech, something I didn't feel was worth the money. The sensor in the Sony is a significant improvement over Canon's previous generation tech. Even the new Canon sensors aren't quite there yet. For me though the A7RII isn't my primary camera. It's what I go to when I know I'll be shooting with a tripod, and where absolute IQ is more important than speed or convenience. I still use all of my Canon glass via the Metabones adapter, and I have an FD adapter for my old FD 300 2.8 and FD 600 4.5. The focus peaking makes using those lenses quite easy. Previously I had a "Super Precision" matte focusing screen in my 5DII for manually focusing those and other lenses, with the Sony I just use the focusing peaking.

There have been some required adjustments of course. For tethered shooting I'm stuck with either bringing out the laptop to use Capture One, or using the Sony app on my tablet. Capture One is slow, and the Sony app just sucks. After getting spoiled using DSLRController on my tablet having to go back to such slow, limited tethering options felt like a real regression. Also, I mounted my L bracket directly to the Metabones adapter. This helps to relieve stress on the adapter mounts to prevent deflection, but it means I can't use my favorite studio lens (85L II) on a tripod with the Sony as the lens hits the L bracket.

Another thing is that it can take a bit more work to get the colors of a scene right in Lr using the Sony vs a Canon camera. The in camera jpeg will look amazing, only to turn to mush once the Lr render is completed. Bringing the file back to life isn't as easy with a Sony as it is with a Canon. Granted this doesn't matter much in a studio setting where I have a profile already generated, but for landscapes it can be frustrating. To be fair I haven't tried editing the files in Capture One Pro yet, which may be the difference maker.

All of that said I'm happy with the camera, but wouldn't want it to be my sole camera. Partly because it's just not as quick and easy to use as my Canon kit, but partly because I don't want or need everything I shoot to be in 45mp files. For everything else I still have my 1Dx, and the 18mp files from it are just fine.

 

[chuasam]

The Sony is a way better camera but the Canon has better lens selection and ergonomics. If you don't need full frame, also consider the Fuji XT2

 

[table1349]

Interesting review. Read the included comments if you are interested. Canon 5Ds R Review by a Landscape Photographer

 

[Advanced Photo]

As for the tilting screen, if the camera has the capability you can use your phone or tablet as a view screen as well, so that might not be quite as important. Just a thought.

 

[Ido]

Seems like you thought this through, and actually tried the cameras (or ones that are similar enough). The only answer I'm actually comfortable giving here is, BUY BOTH! You counter every advantage for one with an equally valid and important reason for the other. There is either no wrong choice to be made here, or no right one, depending on how you look at it.

I guess you need to sit down, disconnect from any distraction, and think hard about what's most important to you in a camera. For me, the ergonomics would trump worries of dynamic range, but it sounds like your DR concerns are about convenience just as much as ergonomics are. So it's just up to you — your preferences and needs.

 

[kalgra]

Interesting review. Read the included comments if you are interested. Canon 5Ds R Review by a Landscape Photographer

Thanks this was helpful! I appreciate you taking the time to share it with me.

As for the tilting screen, if the camera has the capability you can use your phone or tablet as a view screen as well, so that might not be quite as important. Just a thought.

The 5Dsr does not have wifi built in, but I think a new wifi adapetr was introduced with the mark iv so maybe that's an option. Still seems lame they couldn't just include it as a built in feature on a flagship camera when Canons lower models like the 70D and 6D both have it.

Seems like you thought this through, and actually tried the cameras (or ones that are similar enough). The only answer I'm actually comfortable giving here is, BUY BOTH! You counter every advantage for one with an equally valid and important reason for the other. There is either no wrong choice to be made here, or no right one, depending on how you look at it.

I guess you need to sit down, disconnect from any distraction, and think hard about what's most important to you in a camera. For me, the ergonomics would trump worries of dynamic range, but it sounds like your DR concerns are about convenience just as much as ergonomics are. So it's just up to you — your preferences and needs.

Id love to buy both but if I did my wife would surely remove my manhood in my sleep. Not too mention Id really rather put that kind of money into more glass. After thinking about this long and hard I think I will just stick with Canon and go with the 5Dsr. Its still a fine machine and will work well with all the native glass I have. Yes Canon is lagging and the DR is just destroyed by both Sony and Nikon but that said it still has a better DR than my current 6D, not much better at least is not a step backward.

The higher DR is very attractive to me but I know it wont make me a better photographer. In fact i'm the kind of person where it might just be an enabler for me to be little more sloppy and a little more lazy. In reality I'm just simply not a good enough photographer at this point to even take the 5Dsr to its limits and it makes more sense to me to actually strive for that. If I can learn to push the 5Dsr to its limits then by that time Canon will have either caught up to Sony and Nikon or there will be some other better reason for me to buy into a different system.

Also if buy into the Sony system even though id be doing it with the intent of adapting all my canon glass, no doubt I would start looking at e-mount glass as well and probably wind up with a mish mosh of two systems that id probably never be as instinctive or comfortable with than If I just stuck with Canon and continued to hone my skills. Plus right now is kind of a good time to be in the Canon system as so many people are jumping ship to Sony and selling off their canon glass for cheap.

Thanks again everyone I really appreciate your thoughts.

 

[beagle100]

Seems like you thought this through, and actually tried the cameras (or ones that are similar enough). The only answer I'm actually comfortable giving here is, BUY BOTH! You counter every advantage for one with an equally valid and important reason for the other. There is either no wrong choice to be made here, or no right one, depending on how you look at it.
.

true, spending $10,000 on camera gear and a "system" is neither right nor wrong
but pity the poor fool who spends $100 on a camera
www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless

 

[table1349]

You keep talking about spending $100 on a camera. Where did you get a EOS M for $100?

 

[beagle100]

You keep talking about spending $100 on a camera. Where did you get a EOS M for $100?

I bought the original M and 22mm f/2 several years ago on ebay for around $250 . (new , I'm factoring in some depreciation)
I would like the latest M5 ........ at a similar price
www.flickr.com/photos/mmirrorless

 

[Scatterbrained]

Did I miss something? How did a thread about the A7RII and 5DsR turn into a thread to spam your photostream?

 

[photo1x1.com]

I am a Canon shooter with 5DIII, and a lot of canon glass, I also own the A7RII, and meanwhile some E-mount glass from Sony and Zeiss.
I shoot most of the time with the Sony and only change back to Canon

1. when I plan to shoot a huge lot of pictures (Sony won´t let me shoot other RAW resolutions than that massive 42mpix files).
2. when I do quick studio work - like for clients that need portraits, etc. The electronic viewfinder and the monitor are not too easy to work with in a dark studio environment when you use flash only (I never used modelling lights for my work, maybe I should).

The advantages of the Sony for me (in no particular order):

1. The size - hardly anybody stares at your camera when you are out shooting
2. The size - it is easy to pack a few lenses, two bodies and whatnot into your carry on luggage when flying.
3. The size - I travelled with medium format cams and lots of film, with SLRs, DSLRs and whatnot, just to get the best landscape image quality. Shooting with this tiny little camera (on a small carbon tripod) is just a delight.
   
4. The image quality - is amazing.
5. The ergonomics - yes, that´s a pro for me (and I think I´m the only one). I love the customization options and the function button. I don´t like the focus selection method though because it takes one more button press to get there, and that is too much at times.
6. The glass - I never ever used a 50mm-ish lens as much as I use the 55mm zeiss lens, my most used lens on the camera. Also the 70-200 f4 is sharper than my Canon IS
7. The stabilizer - is f"§&$% awesome, but more so for video than for photo.
8. The EVF: in bright sunlight, etc. You see what you get before you press the shutter button and you can more easily review your shots in bad conditions
9. Focus speed. I´m impressed and get more keepers than I do with the 5DIII - no matter what focus setting I choose there. I´ve never been a fan of Canons AF-C focus.

My list of disadvantages:

1. The speed. Especially for long exposure, the camera takes ages to process the images. I can live with the lag at startup, but wainting (felt and approximately) 20 seconds for processing a 30sec exposure is way too long.
   
2. The colors - you mentioned that
3. as mentioned above no S or M RAW files
4. as mentioned above I don´t like it for studio work or other badly lit areas with people due to the viewfinder-problem - but you can set that in camera I think, which I usually don´t .

 

[kalgra]

Thanks for your input I really appreciate that. I found a 5dsr for $2700 in very good condition with a little more than 8000 clicks. I'm thinking that's a pretty good deal since I'm probably sticking with canon at this time. I can also get a certified refurb directly from canon for $2900. What are your thoughts on that?

Ultimately if the canon isn't really what I want I'll just wait until canon comes out with the successor to the 5dsr and hope they listen to their customers wants or until the next Sony is released, I think some say that will be the a9r?

 

[photo1x1.com]

Thanks for your input I really appreciate that. I found a 5dsr for $2700 in very good condition with a little more than 8000 clicks. I'm thinking that's a pretty good deal since I'm probably sticking with canon at this time. I can also get a certified refurb directly from canon for $2900. What are your thoughts on that?

Ultimately if the canon isn't really what I want I'll just wait until canon comes out with the successor to the 5dsr and hope they listen to their customers wants or until the next Sony is released, I think some say that will be the a9r?

Sounds like a plan. I think as others said above, there is no right or wrong in the list of these two cameras . And yes, your post brought me to another downside of Sony - you are tempted to purchase a camera way more often then you are with Canon (which isn´t always a good thing ). The a9 sure will be a dealbreaker, but I think the pricetag will be much above the a7RII, or the new Canons. I wonder though if it will be worth the money because it is expected to be bigger, and that will reduce my pro-list by three entries .