POLICE and Photography

[crimbfighter]

Being one of those wretched flatfoots, I feel obligated to chime in on this thread

I watch photographers of all sorts roaming around my beat, and usually can tell in seconds if they need a second look. Often times the ones that get a second look are the ones pointing their cameras at sensitive areas, ie in windows or at buildings that contain sensitive materials like our nuclear reactor or biological agents. Even then a contact usually only consists of 30 seconds of "how ya doin, what are you up to?" So long as my spidie sense doesn't tingle, I go on my way. Bottom line, people have the right to take pictures. Though we wouldn't be doing our jobs a community caretakers if we didn't at least check given our current social climate.

I did contact a guy once who was taking pictures of girls sun bathing on a grassy lawn. It's a well known spot where on nice days, 100+ girls will be basking in the rays. He voluntarily showed me his camera, and there were over 300 close up pictures of girls naughty bits on there. Needless to say a check of his record indicated he was a sex offender... Go figure... Unfortunately, in cases like this, those people are protected by the same rights you and I are, so there really isn't anything we can even do to someone like that. Although I bluffed and told him I would release a statement to the press with his name in it and what he was up to. It worked...he deleted the photos and left.

 

[pbelarge]

In the last year, I have had numerous encounters with police and my camera.
I think part of it is where I am taking the photos from.

My last encounter was at Wall St in NYC. I had a large lens with a hood on my 7D. I was climbing up the side of the building directly across from 1 Wall St. The Terrorist Squad picked me up on camera and were going to come out and question me.
As luck would have it, my nephew was on duty and recognized me. He is the one who came out and explained that maybe I should refrain from climbing up the side of the building.:er:
I told him I wanted some unique photos that the 1000s of tourists were not getting.

He is now in the process of getting me a pass to get on the roof of some of the buildings for unique shots...:mrgreen:

 

[sam_justice]

Working in law enforcement myself and being a budding photographer I find it funny approaching other photographers when in uniform. Usually people will seem quite uneasy as I approach but I always break the ice with "what model of *insert make of camera* is that?" at which point most people click that I also am into photography.

 

[misskrys]

One time I was taking night photos on campus, and a campus officer drove up and asked what I was doing. He didn't really understand what in the world I might be taking pictures of, but he left anyway.

 

[SecondShot]

So long as police don't try to tell me i can't take pictures of stuff from a public space/street/area, then I have no problem with one strolling up and saying "hi". If they do, then that's a problem.

 

[Josh66]

Working in law enforcement myself and being a budding photographer I find it funny approaching other photographers when in uniform. Usually people will seem quite uneasy as I approach but I always break the ice with "what model of *insert make of camera* is that?" at which point most people click that I also am into photography.

Since you are one of the few people on this board that can see both sides of the 'argument', I'd be very interested in hearing your perspective on the whole cops/photographers thing.


You said that you've had to approach photographers before... For what reason? (I understand that even if you may not personally feel that any given person is a threat, you have to investigate it.)

What could the average photographer do to avoid police interaction, or make it go more smoothly.

What are the things that make you stop and decide to question an individual?

 

[Stormchase]

Great to hear about all your stories! Funny and intresting stuff. Thanks for all of you in uniform that have chimed in!
I do want to add to this...
Once I was takeing wide angle shots of an indoor shopping area. I had a lady approach me after bieng very nice asking who i work for. When I say "Nobody" she flipped out. "How dare you take pictures of me!", "Your not allowed to do this!" When I was explaining she was not even in focus or my subject at all she keeped flipping out. I even showed her the picture I took and it didnt help. I ended it with a stern comment of "Sorry to offend you. Ill delete it if you would like and Im not doing anything illegal... Have a good night."
Here is the shot. It was that lady at the end ... that franklygot in the way, lol. After it was all over I was kindly asked for 5 dollers in gas money from a crackhead haha. I went home.

Oddly enough, the cops don't seem to want to pull over a PT Cruiser. :er: I get the feeling that when they see me speeding, they're just impressed I was able to get it over 60, lol. I do miss those T-tops, tho.

:lmao::lmao:

I do not feel upset really that they are looking into what i am doing. Sometimes (If im in a new place) makes me question if I might be in a place I shouldnt but I just keep my eye out... and keep shooting.

 

[ceomom703]

I went to the arena to practice action shots of the kids skating & was asked to leave.

Were any of them your own kids? Adults without children at playgrounds, schools, and such tend to look very suspicious. Speaking as a mother, of course.

 

[DennyCrane]

Being one of those wretched flatfoots, I feel obligated to chime in on this thread

I watch photographers of all sorts roaming around my beat, and usually can tell in seconds if they need a second look. Often times the ones that get a second look are the ones pointing their cameras at sensitive areas, ie in windows or at buildings that contain sensitive materials like our nuclear reactor or biological agents. Even then a contact usually only consists of 30 seconds of "how ya doin, what are you up to?" So long as my spidie sense doesn't tingle, I go on my way. Bottom line, people have the right to take pictures. Though we wouldn't be doing our jobs a community caretakers if we didn't at least check given our current social climate.

I did contact a guy once who was taking pictures of girls sun bathing on a grassy lawn. It's a well known spot where on nice days, 100+ girls will be basking in the rays. He voluntarily showed me his camera, and there were over 300 close up pictures of girls naughty bits on there. Needless to say a check of his record indicated he was a sex offender... Go figure... Unfortunately, in cases like this, those people are protected by the same rights you and I are, so there really isn't anything we can even do to someone like that. Although I bluffed and told him I would release a statement to the press with his name in it and what he was up to. It worked...he deleted the photos and left.

I find this whole scenario slightly chilling. Forget the knee-jerk reaction we all have about sex offenders for a moment. Here is a police officer who's not happy with current laws about photographers, so he lies to a citizen and threatens him. THIS is why we get harassed on the streets. It's not ignorance of the laws protecting photographers, it's police officers knowing the law and ignoring it.

My personal opinion? Lock up sex offenders forever. No parole. But here we have a cop who doesn't like the law, so uses his uniform and badge to threaten and intimidate someone doing something legal. I wonder what other thing's he's done on duty to a citizen because he didn't like them, but knew they weren't breaking any laws?

Like I said, chilling.

 

[sam_justice]

Working in law enforcement myself and being a budding photographer I find it funny approaching other photographers when in uniform. Usually people will seem quite uneasy as I approach but I always break the ice with "what model of *insert make of camera* is that?" at which point most people click that I also am into photography.

Since you are one of the few people on this board that can see both sides of the 'argument', I'd be very interested in hearing your perspective on the whole cops/photographers thing.


You said that you've had to approach photographers before... For what reason? (I understand that even if you may not personally feel that any given person is a threat, you have to investigate it.)

What could the average photographer do to avoid police interaction, or make it go more smoothly.

What are the things that make you stop and decide to question an individual?

That's a toughie, since everyone works on their own merits and instincts really.
I've approached photographers before for many reasons, mainly to have a chat with them about photography!

Obviously if we get a call of what a member of public would call a "suspicious" person with a camera, we have a duty of care to check it out. In most scenarios though it'll be a shutterbug trying to get a good composition which I completely understand and in most cases will help the person with it.

There have been occasions where parents have called in saying someone's taking photos of kids in a play park, once again 99.9% of the time it's entirely innocent and it's just someone trying to get some good action snaps. We do have to check it out though.

If you get approached by an officer who asks why you're taking photos just be polite and open. Remember the officer is ignorant to the situation when they arrive, all they've been told is information from the public which can be extremely misconstrued at times. Put yourself in our shoes, our radio goes buzzing saying "member of public reporting a suspicious middle aged male taking photos of passerbys", if that's all the information we have then we're going to want to ask questions just to ascertain what's going on. It's not us being rude, we're just trying to understand (and if the officer doesn't understand photography you can see why the suspicion arises). They may ask for your details, if so, hand them over. All they're going to do is run your name and date of birth through the system to make sure you're not known to the Police (imagine if it turned out that the photographer at the childs play park was a paedophile and we just ignored it). Once again it's nothing personal, the officer doesn't know you, it's just standard procedure.

In terms of what makes me personally stop an individual (but remember here I'm into photography and every officer is different) if someone is blatantly open with a camera, then it's pretty obvious they have nothing to hide. The ones that make me question their actions are the people that hide and shy away. For instance, I work in a busy tourist town with a popular beach, a huge number of people take photos here and it's such a normal sight to see that no one would question it. A few months ago I was walking along said beach, cameras were firing away with families taking pictures kids, photographers of the beach, pier etc. Then I noticed a man lying down with a baseball cap covering half his face, sunglasses and heavy clothing for the weather (an extremely hot and sunny day, he was wearing a fleece and jeans). I found it odd because the crowd were facing toward the sea (and sun) but this man was lying down in front of the crowd looking straight at them. He had a magazine in front of him lying open, as I got closer I could see underneath this magazine there was a camera lens. Obviously suspicion was aroused and my alarm bells started ringing. I went over the man, introduced myself and said I noticed the camera. At this point the man became extremely nervous so I asked to take a look at the photos, surprise surprise they were all of small children. He was swiftly arrested for breaching his bail conditions.

 

[Ron Evers]

You have a good point Denny.

We know there are many bad cops but we can hope the good ones use discretion.

ceomom, one of our kids has kids but no they were not there. I did understand but still feel it is a shame this is how our society has progressed. I blame the soft on crime Liberals in our country.

 

[DennyCrane]

sam justice, Psychic Celebrity Friends say you're from the UK, am I correct? I'm pretty sure in America, a police officer cannot demand to see what pictures you've taken. I believe a judges order is required. But, as I said, if a police officer approached me, I'd tell him what I was shooting and offer to show him.

 

[sam_justice]

I am from the UK indeed! You're exactly right though, no one can force you to show them what you're taking. General common courtesy and manners goes a long way, if I ask to see some photos, I am asking, not demanding. If that person wants to say no then I will respect that decision.

In the case of the the story above, if the man had refused to show me the photos then I would've seized the camera BUT that would've been due to the fact he was a registered paedophile who was already breaching his bail conditions just by being in the beach area.

 

[Taylor510ce]

Once I was takeing wide angle shots of an indoor shopping area. I had a lady approach me after bieng very nice asking who i work for. When I say "Nobody" she flipped out. "How dare you take pictures of me!", "Your not allowed to do this!" When I was explaining she was not even in focus or my subject at all she keeped flipping out. I even showed her the picture I took and it didnt help. I ended it with a stern comment of "Sorry to offend you. Ill delete it if you would like and Im not doing anything illegal... Have a good night." .

Technically, you WERE possibly doing something wrong. If it was an indoor shopping area, it is owned by someone and therefore is private property. Yes, it is a public location, but it is not public property. There is a difference. They can ask you to leave, or refuse you permission to photograph there. She could have complained to the owners. I am sure ( and perhaps the cops posting here can validate this ) that they could charge you with things like disturbing the peace, or possibly even harrassment depending on local laws. Then there is the issue that if a cop shows up and requests you to leave ( and assuming you get all uppity about your photographer rights ) its my guess you wouldn't be too happy with that outcome, because in reality, you would not have that right there. Now if you were standing off property with a really long lens, then they could shove it.

I personally have never had any cops bother me. I actually have been thinking of getting into some editorial shooting and getting a scanner and all that. So I am sure if I did, I would be running into a lot of harrasment by the police. I do tend to make myself obvious as other have stated. I recently went to a local public park in my neighborhood. They have multiple soccer fields and have games on Saturdays. Anyway, it happened to be teen girls playing ( not knowing this before going, I just kinda take whatever happens to be there ). I distinctly remember thinking "I wonder if some parents are wondering if I am some perv or something?" Typically when you have a backpack full of gear, an big gripped SLR, and a huge effin L lens, I think most people assume you aren't some wierdo. I am sure some get pissed regardless, but oh well. If someone came up to me and had a legitimate problem, I would probably ask which kid was theirs and tell them that I would do my best to avoid shots with them in it, but if they were not courteous in response, I would tell them to take a hike.

 

[danielrwelch]

I live in KC and I was out one night shooting on the Plaza (which is a semi-posh shopping/dining area) and a cop asked me what I was doing and I said I was shooting some long shutter exposures of people and traffic and he told me he would like to see what I was shooting.

Since I had nothing to hide, I really didn't care in showing him a quick runthrough. He apologized and said he was making sure I was not shooting through the shop window for "future prospects." I was confused, turned around and realized I was standing in front of Tiffany & Co.