Pricing, unique perspective

[Peniole]

Have been ridiculously busy at work, so I haven't been on here much lately. I did a while back some freebie shots for my lab at the cancer institute. They got the attention of the higher ups and they want me to get them some shots for this year's annual report. They figured I do the research so I would have a unique perspective on getting shots for the stories included in the annual report. This would include stock shots of bits and pieces in the lab, some candid people shots, construction shots of the new expansion, some staged people shots.

Now for the hours to get these: basically the deadline is the 19th of this month. I plan on around 3-4 hours a day dedicated to these including editing. Some shots I prefer to get on the weekend so I don't disturb work. I figured it should be around at least 20 hours.

Rights: They want unlimited rights to print and distribute the pictures.

They've typically paid $5000 in the past for a photog+assistant for a 3 day (6hrs/day) staged pro shoot.

What do my fellow TPF members think would be a reasonable bid, given the hours and rights mentioned and my unique perspective as a cancer researcher?

TIA

 

[Big Mike]

I haven't done anything like that, so take any of my advice for what it's worth.

I think that for something like this, you should either negotiate on the actual images that will be used, and their usage rights etc. Or you can just charge them a rate (day rate or hourly) for your time and have that include the usage rights to the images.
Off the top of my head, $1000 per day would be a good rate to charge. I'd consider that for the actual time spent on-site setting up and/or shooting. I would include any basic post processing in that charge, not counting the time it takes back at your home/office.
If they want additional/special processing, then that can be an added charge.

 

[Peniole]

Thanks for the insight Mike

 

[Christie Photo]

They've typically paid $5000 in the past for a photog+assistant for a 3 day (6hrs/day) staged pro shoot.

What do my fellow TPF members think would be a reasonable bid, given the hours and rights mentioned and my unique perspective as a cancer researcher?

Well... let me ask you:

Are you confident that you can provide images in par with what they've been getting?

Like you say, you would provide them with a unique perspective. Also, you know you way around the place and wouldn't need somebody with you the whole time. You'd be less disruptive. And, it should be easier for them to communicate with you, being in the industry.

So, if everything else is equal (price and quality), they'd be getting more if they use you.

I wouldn't worry too much about usage rights. The images are somewhat perishable. They won't use them in next year's report. I suppose changes in the industry will make them obsolete in a few years anyway.

Good luck!

-Pete

 

[KmH]

Rights: They want unlimited rights to print and distribute the pictures.

Unlimited? Sure! No problem. After all, it's only money. (theirs, and a nice chunk of it too.)

It sounds like they are doing their best to take advantage.

Many commercial clients ask for unlimited rights, but don't need them.

Just make them a scale: x amount for the first 5000? AR's, each additional run of 5000? AR's is x amount additional. That way they can still budget fairly easily and you dn't have to give away the farm.

You might take a look at fotoQuote Pro 6 www.cradoc.com, the industry standard software for pricing commercial usage of photography.

You might also visit www.ASMP.org and click on the Business Resources tab and have a look at their Licensing tutorial.

 

[Peniole]

Well... let me ask you:

Are you confident that you can provide images in par with what they've been getting?

Like you say, you would provide them with a unique perspective. Also, you know you way around the place and wouldn't need somebody with you the whole time. You'd be less disruptive. And, it should be easier for them to communicate with you, being in the industry.

So, if everything else is equal (price and quality), they'd be getting more if they use you.

I wouldn't worry too much about usage rights. The images are somewhat perishable. They won't use them in next year's report. I suppose changes in the industry will make them obsolete in a few years anyway.

Good luck!

-Pete

Everything you said is quite true, less disruption etc..

Yes absolutely sure I can give them considerably better quality than they've received in the past (but then again that's not a real challenge given the quality of pictures I've seen them use before). I've even donated a few pictures in the past that they've used on their website.

Thanks for the insight all.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

Yes absolutely sure I can give them considerably better quality than they've received in the past (but then again that's not a real challenge given the quality of pictures I've seen them use before). I've even donated a few pictures in the past that they've used on their website.

In that case, why not ask for the same amount? The only thing that could/would be a problem is if you shoot those during your normal working hours. That time is theirs and if you shoot during that time it could be considered work-for-hire if they know the law.

Work for hire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Christie Photo]

The only thing that could/would be a problem is if you shoot those during your normal working hours. That time is theirs and if you shoot during that time it could be considered work-for-hire if they know the law.

Interesting thought! Or... if you shoot during your usual work day, they may want to dock you for time lost since you're not tending to your usual duties.

Interesting.

 

[Johnboy2978]

That has the potential to get a little messy if the company you work for is sticklers. One of my best, and easiest client, has been the company I work for full time. I've been hired for several photography jobs by my employer (I work in mental health). My CEO did question it initially, and I told him I would be glad to take PTO for half a day, charge them mileage and an hourly rate as a photographer which would end up costing them more than my original quote. He decided to just pay my original quote and pretend I was in my office as well doing my regular job. I've done probably 8 or 10 projects for them over the past couple of years. My boss is happy with my end product as well as my regular job and it has worked out well so far, but like I said, it could be hairy depending on the employer. Good luck though.

 

[Peniole]

I knew the work for hire law, and they knew it too. The institute obviously is my employer, but my direct boss who is responsible for my hours is a different person than the director. He is very happy with my work and I approached him regarding the project as PTO. No problem there. Then it came to the people upstairs; why they asked me for a bid in the first place is beyond me?! Even though I told them I'd do it for any budget they had because I would have liked to help the institute out, they still insisted on a bid. They didn't like my bid ($2800); they basically wanted me to work for pennies and they own the pictures ($750 was their max budget for me). For at least 20 hours worth of leg work and the pictures, with the kind of treatment I was met with after the bid I don't think so.

Given I couldn't care less about the geniuses upstairs I basically told them to stuff it! (diplomatically of course). It's not worth the disruption to my schedule or the goodwill of my principal investgator (boss). Plus she kept mumbling about wanting the pictures to be more "organic" without being able to explain herself. About me missing time from my usual duties, not knowing I had already cleared this with my boss of the last two years who knows I put in a minimum of 60 hours a week including weekends/thanksgiving/christmas/and new years with little if any vacation time. She picked the wrong person to insult regarding his work ethic while asking for a favour. Other things were said by her and her office partner that I brushed off politely and left. Let's see how much it's going to cost them to do what they wanted me to do, or how well the pictures turn out given the very tight schedule they put thmselves in.

Thanks one and all for the info and insight into the process, and similar situations.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

I'm on my very last posts but I saw your update and I had to say I am not surprised. It is always hard to mix things up.

Family and business.

Regular workplace and side job.

HELL!

I just stay away from it all. And you seem to have done a good job reacting...