Question for the experts

[coloradcowboy]

The RR they are working is the Sanpete Valley RR. It ran from Thistle, Utah to Marysvale, Utah. It comes down to the photo is either Butch and SK or it isn't. I had a forensic expert do analysis on it. Here is one of the stories if your interested.
Were 'Butch and Sundance' among Sanpete railroad roustabouts?
Butch was seen by various witnesses robbing the Great Northern Railway July 3, 1901. The photo is roughly four months after this. Without revealing facts that will be coming out soon in a publication, Butch had a Wild Bunch connection to the area where this photo was taken. I do not believe he was just out making a few bucks fixing RR ties. I think the photo happened by shear chance. BTW when the photo was taken, they were all looking into the sun, thus making them squint. Butch's mouth is smirking because he has a cigarette in the corner of his mouth.
As I stated at the beginning of this thread, I wanted to get thoughts on distortion because the RR photo is from a distance, the other known photos are close ups. It also appears to be overexposed. I appreciate your comments on this.

 

[Bill The Lurker]

you got your forensic expert giving you a positive id what you need us for?

it's not like you were gonna listen to any answers that conflict with the one you want.

still if your serious look at the ears

 

[coloradcowboy]

What do I need your opinion for? Because Im trying to get to the truth. If its not them, Im a big boy and can live with it. To me, one forensic expert is a good start, but nothing wrong with getting an idea of how a camera works at different distances. SK right ear appears to be a distorted in the RR photo. It looks like either he is missing the top part of his ear(which I doubt) or the camera didnt pick it up for whatever reason ( one of the reasons Im asking for help) or the shadow is hiding it. Ive got no issues with Butch's ears. However, the biggest comments I get on Butch is that the corner of his bottom right jaw is not quite as square as these other two pics. The reason Ive contacted the forum to see if its because of the distance of the shot

 

[Bill The Lurker]

ears appear to protrude more from the sides of the head the further away you get. what happens to the appearance of ears in these photos?

 

[coloradcowboy]

SK impossible to say because the RR photo he is looking straight on and the other two photos are at an angle. Butches ear to the left doesn't stick out quite as far in the RR photo, ear to right is more/less equal

 

[compur]

It's possible that a lens could make something appear more or less rounded (if that is what you're asking) but it would have that effect on everything in the photo, not just one person's chin, and the distance to the subject wouldn't affect that.

 

[coloradcowboy]

Interesting. Thank you. So with that being said, do you see any roundness features in the first picture I posted ( guy on left)

 

[Bill The Lurker]

it's pretty obvious the guy in the railroad photo has ears flatter to his head than the two photos of cassidy, the jaw is rounder, and the shoulders are all wrong as well, but it could still be cassidy. people change shape, light plays odd tricks on us. the dude looks substantively dfferent though.

absent corroborating evidence the picture is meaningless. folk stories about butch being in the area are not very useful because every area, as the article you poited to says, has those stories. show me a letter, show me a hotel ledger, show me a physical artifact. give us even a credible bit of testimony. a picture that looks kinda like maybe it's.. means nothing. i could dig up fifty pictures that look kinda like. i'm related to a guy who looks as much like cassidy as that guy on the tracks.

the lines on the pictures prove nothing except that the three faces are of normal proportion. i found butch myself, look.

your forensics person is a sketch artist, by the way. doesn't mean she doesn't know how to do this stuff, of course. though we can tell that she can't do this stuff by the fact that she's id'd a guy who doesn't look like butch cassidy as butch cassidy.

(don't worry that pix isn't copyrighted, i dint steal it)

 

[coloradcowboy]

thanks for your opinion. Now that you've found the picture of a guy that looks nothing like Butch, break down each one of the squares you've created with the horizontal and vertical lines and compare to Butch. BTW the lines were done by me not the forensic person.

 

[limr]

I grabbed my camera and my Elvis pez dispenser from my desk and took them to the kitchen.

I interrupt this technical discussion to note the sheer awesomeness of your having an Elvis pez dispenser.

That is all.

Carry on.

 

[astroNikon]

I'm surprised no one has told OP to search on the term "perspective distortion"
for examples of what Ysarex was elaborating about

these may give you more insight into what some are talking about especially with the ears, nose, face, etc.

for example ==> http://gizmodo.com/5857279/this-is-how-lenses-beautify-or-uglify-your-pretty-face
or
==> Does Focal Length Distort Subjects?

 

[astroNikon]

I grabbed my camera and my Elvis pez dispenser from my desk and took them to the kitchen.

I interrupt this technical discussion to note the sheer awesomeness of your having an Elvis pez dispenser.

That is all.

Carry on.

Yeah, I was going to mention that too. LOL
how cool

 

[Designer]

Can a picture be slightly distorted simply by distance?

If the same lens was used, I would say no. I pointed out several other factors that would influence the facial proportions, but if the exact same lens was used for both photos, then distance alone would not be a factor.

Now I wonder how much you know about the camera and lens(es?) used in the two photographs? You would have to know exact details, such as the name of the manufacturer, the model (if it had a model name) and maybe even the serial number, because given that lenses of that era were probably all hand made, (my guess) then there might be minute differences between lenses of even the same make and model.

 

[Ysarex]

I grabbed my camera and my Elvis pez dispenser from my desk and took them to the kitchen.

I interrupt this technical discussion to note the sheer awesomeness of your having an Elvis pez dispenser.

That is all.

Carry on.

Elvis and Jesus watch over me while I work. My wife likes to come along and turn them so they're talking to each other. Jesus is saying to Elvis, "Love ya Baby."

Joe

 

[limr]

I grabbed my camera and my Elvis pez dispenser from my desk and took them to the kitchen.

I interrupt this technical discussion to note the sheer awesomeness of your having an Elvis pez dispenser.

That is all.

Carry on.

Elvis and Jesus watch over me while I work. My wife likes to come along and turn them so they're talking to each other. Jesus is saying to Elvis, "Love ya Baby."

Joe

View attachment 146469

Star Wars and a hula dude for me.