Questions for wildlife photogs, photojournos, and weddings photogs

[Shepp]

Hi

So, not to belabor my introduction again, but I am in the process of transitioning from amateur to professional in my work so as to start my own studio. My work has mostly been on amateur and prosumer level cameras, which has been fine as it's forced me to really consider my subjects and get a grip on the basics of composition, depth of field, shutter speeds, ISO's, etc. Besides being overwhelmed by the staggering options available as far as professional cameras under $1500 go, I am also overwhelmed by options as far as lenses go. So here are my queries:

1. Digital cameras: DSLR vs. Mirrorless vs. Compact. I have a compact, and I like it, but I've already exhausted the technical limitations of it. It's basically a high end point and shoot for enthusiasts, but there's no hot shoe, and no way to change lenses. The zoom is limited...I could go on. When it comes to mirrorless cameras that are professional grade, what are good suggestions? And as DSLRs go, I've heard a staggering amount of good things about Canon's Rebel line. Advice?

2. This pertains to the subject line: I have an interest in photographing animals, both in the wild, and domesticated, but in many cases, I can't get close enough to an animal to really isolate my subject from the background without the animal smudging my lens, looking away from me, or just being difficult. When I'm at a distance, though, and I zoom in, my image becomes flat. What kind of equipment or shootings techniques allow wildlife photographers, and anyone who wants to shoot their subject at a distance, to get their subject really isolated from the background? People have suggested telephoto lenses, but others have said that telephoto lenses will only flatten my image (essentially the opposite of what I want).

Sorry if this post is long winded! I appreciate any and all suggestions and advice! .

 

[enzodm]

Mmm... honestly, if you are really transitioning to pro, and having already a grip on the basics, you should already have answers to these questions.
One for sure: under $1500 you don't find any new professional camera, and the Rebel line is the most basic one, aimed at amateurs. By the way, consider to buy at least two bodies.
And another one for which you need to have already an answer: the only way to shoot subjects at distance is indeed telephoto, what else? Your images become flat most likely because you shoot with a compact camera.

My suggestion is: before any drastic change in your life, buy a used dSLR (almost any kind), with kit lens. After having found the limits of the kit lens, buy a relatively cheap tele, and a fixed lens (50/1.8). And then a flash. During the process, buy also a decent tripod.
Try to learn and experiment with that, and only then consider some professional future, having also a better idea on the field you like: photographing animals most likely will not give you a salary.

 

[Overread]

A few thoughts:

1) Mirrorless VS DSLR - this is a whole topic unto itself, but my view is that Mirrorless is basically a point and shoot for DSLR photographers.

It presents a smaller, lighter (esp in terms of lens) setup that has the feel and quality of a DSLR, but without the bulk. Now the primary downside of that is because your prime intent is space saving you end up with a smaller sensor; that in turn affects the circle of confusion and thus the depth of field. As a result you get much less subject isolation even if you're using a smaller aperture - at least in comparison to a DSLR.

So whilst mirrorless are very good quality, they don't have the subject isolation that full DSLR's have. For wildlife they are also typically not as ruggedly built as some of the mid to high range DSLRs.


Canon's rebel line are very good, but they are also entry level. You might find that a 50D, 40D might be more suite to what you're after for wildlife. They are midrange crop sensor bodies. There is also the newer 60D and 70D although whilst they advance in many areas they also represent the point at which the xxD line split into a high and low end model with xxD being the lower end (this mostly affects body construction and button layout).
The 7D is the higher end option and with a 7DMII entering the market later this year second hand prices on them will drop (and might drop within budget).


2) As mentioned above, smaller sensors make the separation of subject and background harder. OF course there are other factors such as the distance from subject to background and relative subject to camera distance - if you're further away from the subject you'll find it easier to isolate from its background.

Telephoto lenses would thus be the ideal; especailly for wildlife because unless you're Steve Irwin good at getting close you'll need them to get a good composition on a wild subject.

The effect you're after would be gotten best with a smaller aperture (bigger f number); so you'll want to have the subject as far from its background as you can (if its too close the background won't be fully blurred - although of course in the field sometimes you can't have the luxuary of choice).


Note- there are some mirrorless cameras with larger sensors inside; however that means you've got to use a DSLR sized lens; at that point you might as well get a full DSLR because otherwise you've got a big heavy lens out front and a very small body at the back which results in an unbalanced setup to hold.

 

[Robin Usagani]

They have Sony mirrorless FULL FRAME now. Your argument of subject isolation is no longer valid overread.

 

[Overread]

Robin - aye I did state that there are some mirrorless with larger sensors = thing is if you've got to have a larger sensor you've got to have a larger lens - at which point unless you're just using short focal length pancake lenses (not really practical for wildlife) you're basically using a DSLR sized setup wit ha tiny camera - not ideal for balance.

 

[gsgary]

A few thoughts:

1) Mirrorless VS DSLR - this is a whole topic unto itself, but my view is that Mirrorless is basically a point and shoot for DSLR photographers.

It presents a smaller, lighter (esp in terms of lens) setup that has the feel and quality of a DSLR, but without the bulk. Now the primary downside of that is because your prime intent is space saving you end up with a smaller sensor; that in turn affects the circle of confusion and thus the depth of field. As a result you get much less subject isolation even if you're using a smaller aperture - at least in comparison to a DSLR.

So whilst mirrorless are very good quality, they don't have the subject isolation that full DSLR's have. For wildlife they are also typically not as ruggedly built as some of the mid to high range DSLRs.


Canon's rebel line are very good, but they are also entry level. You might find that a 50D, 40D might be more suite to what you're after for wildlife. They are midrange crop sensor bodies. There is also the newer 60D and 70D although whilst they advance in many areas they also represent the point at which the xxD line split into a high and low end model with xxD being the lower end (this mostly affects body construction and button layout).
The 7D is the higher end option and with a 7DMII entering the market later this year second hand prices on them will drop (and might drop within budget).


2) As mentioned above, smaller sensors make the separation of subject and background harder. OF course there are other factors such as the distance from subject to background and relative subject to camera distance - if you're further away from the subject you'll find it easier to isolate from its background.

Telephoto lenses would thus be the ideal; especailly for wildlife because unless you're Steve Irwin good at getting close you'll need them to get a good composition on a wild subject.

The effect you're after would be gotten best with a smaller aperture (bigger f number); so you'll want to have the subject as far from its background as you can (if its too close the background won't be fully blurred - although of course in the field sometimes you can't have the luxuary of choice).


Note- there are some mirrorless cameras with larger sensors inside; however that means you've got to use a DSLR sized lens; at that point you might as well get a full DSLR because otherwise you've got a big heavy lens out front and a very small body at the back which results in an unbalanced setup to hold.

Rubbish my A7 is better than any of my Canon cameras

 

[bratkinson]

I'm just a long-time amateur, but if I were thinking of going pro, I'd want several things 'in place' before I test the waters of the market place:

1. A fairly complete understanding and wide experience with the exposure triangle in just about any kind of light, including the sun (or sunset) at the subjects' back, and still get good exposure of their faces. I oftentimes take a 'test shot' and make adjustments from there. For me, it's almost 'fully automatic' what needs to be adjusted and the tradeoffs that result.
2. Good enough equipment to get the results I think the potential customers would want. Taking wildlife shots on an on the Serengetti Plains of Africa, for example, with a T3i and an 18-50mm lens won't produce professional-quality results, no matter how hard one tries. While a 200mm lens might be sufficient at a zoo, typically, 400mm and longer lenses are needed for 'in the wild' shots.
3. Have a business plan written down. The biggest issue is how to get customers. A 3x5 card on a grocery store bulletin board or merely setting up a web site will not likely drum up business until you have a well-established, recognized name. The marketplace is overflowing with 'professional photographer' wannabes. How to start making money with your photography is the issue.

While there are numerous people with limited experience and pretty-basic cameras out there making money from their photography, the difference of making money beyond a couple of friends and relatives as customers and making enough to pay your bills is a very large jump.

 

[JoeW]

Hi

So, not to belabor my introduction again, but I am in the process of transitioning from amateur to professional in my work so as to start my own studio. My work has mostly been on amateur and prosumer level cameras, which has been fine as it's forced me to really consider my subjects and get a grip on the basics of composition, depth of field, shutter speeds, ISO's, etc. Besides being overwhelmed by the staggering options available as far as professional cameras under $1500 go, I am also overwhelmed by options as far as lenses go. So here are my queries:

1. Digital cameras: DSLR vs. Mirrorless vs. Compact. I have a compact, and I like it, but I've already exhausted the technical limitations of it. It's basically a high end point and shoot for enthusiasts, but there's no hot shoe, and no way to change lenses. The zoom is limited...I could go on. When it comes to mirrorless cameras that are professional grade, what are good suggestions? And as DSLRs go, I've heard a staggering amount of good things about Canon's Rebel line. Advice?

2. This pertains to the subject line: I have an interest in photographing animals, both in the wild, and domesticated, but in many cases, I can't get close enough to an animal to really isolate my subject from the background without the animal smudging my lens, looking away from me, or just being difficult. When I'm at a distance, though, and I zoom in, my image becomes flat. What kind of equipment or shootings techniques allow wildlife photographers, and anyone who wants to shoot their subject at a distance, to get their subject really isolated from the background? People have suggested telephoto lenses, but others have said that telephoto lenses will only flatten my image (essentially the opposite of what I want).

Sorry if this post is long winded! I appreciate any and all suggestions and advice! .

Let me start with the last subject first:
--A good quality zoom shouldn't result in a flat subject. And photographing wildlife outside of captivity requires real skill, it's really more about patience and being a good tracker/knowing your animals than it is about being good with a camera (though that counts too). For instance, get to a water source pre-sunrise and set up so you're oriented to the East. Read the tracks to know where in that watering source is the favorite spot. And with patience you'll get a superb shot of a backlit Moose with steam from the warm water around the cold ground rising up. Definitely not a flat picture with the backlighting. But to consistently get that, you need to know your animals and their environment. Also, when I said a good quality zoom, you're probably talking about a minimum of a 200mm f2.8 (and probably longer focal length if you're talking about birds of prey or camera shy big game that is a bit dangerous as well).
--Your thread heading called out for wedding, photojournalist, and environmental photographers. Those are three very diverse fields. It's a bit rare to see someone do each of them professionally and well. They tend to call for different equipment, different skill sets. And each of them is so much more than about technique and equipment. Galen Rowell was an expert climber. And he'd find a great sunrise spot and climb it the evening before and then rope himself in to the cliff (sleep while hanging on the side of a fricking cliff) b/c he knew in the morning he wouldn't have time to make the climb to the right spot and get the shot. That's about a skill set (climbing) that the vast majority of people don't have. Or reading animal spoor and tracks. Or understanding the mating and migratory habits of particular birds. Photojournalism is so much more about putting yourself in the right situation. You develop tons of contacts. You are always ready to shoot. Usually you want to shoot with a long depth of field (b/c in the moment, focus is sometimes a luxury) and things like FPS and ISO/low light shooting ability are critical. Frankly, I can't think of a camera for $1,500 that a decent photojournalist would use all of the time unless they bought it used. And a photojournalist is first and foremost a journalist. That means there's a set of ethics around what you shoot, an understanding of the story, and the ability to find and tell a story among all the events that is just critical. Otherwise you're just a bystander with a camera. As for weddings...the best wedding photographers I know of shoot weddings 98% of the time--they specialize in it. Different set of equipment (soft boxes, medium portrait lens, lighting modifiers, critical to have a backup body) that go with shooting weddings.

In all cases, I think you've picked 3 areas of speciality where the lens matter more than the camera. Find the lens that fit what you want to shoot and then pick bodies that work with those lens.

 

[astroNikon]

I ignored this thread because I thought it was going to be high level.

But reading it I now know the OP, for all practical purposes is a newbie at photography.
A Point & Shoot does not teach one the ISO, Shutter, Aperture triangle and how to use it in all situations. Reading and understanding and real-world practical knowledge are two different things entirely.

And equipment ... well let's talk about "professional" equipment.

For instance for weddings , you want to go Full Frame cameras for the low light ability as in churches, evenings, banquets et all you will have low light situations.

So for cameras consider these:
Canon 1dx at $6,800 --> Canon EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera 5253B002
Canon 5dm3 at $3,200 --> Canon EOS-5D Mark III Digital SLR Camera Body, 22.3 Megapixels - USA Warranty 5260B002

then you definitely need these lenses
Canon 24-70/2.8 at $2,100 --> Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM Zoom Lens - U.S.A. Warranty 5175B002
Canon 70-200/2.8 at $2,300 --> Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Lens, USA 2751B002

for wildlife add
Canon 600mm at $12,000 -> Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II USM Lens, USA 5125B002
Canon 400mm at $10,500 --> Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II USM Lens - USA Warranty 4412B002

of course being a professional with a studio add in TONS of lighting equipment probably easily going to set you back $20,000. For starters.

here's a good thread about how much a studio costs --> How much money have you invested? | Photography Forum

so much for $1,500.
Go buy yourself a Rebel first and learn how to use it in Manual. Then learn about composition, lighting, etc etc etc. Start doing photo shoots of friends and push your skills.
Then think about going pro.

 

[dennybeall]

The quality of the photos between a nice DSLR and a little mirrorless camera is actually a bit of a moot point in a part of this question. If you show up to do a professional photography job and whip that little white plastic camera out of your pocket the client is not going to be happy. You and I both know the quality of the pictures could be the same but will the client be happy??????

 

[PWhite214]

Start by choosing a camera system, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Sony, ........ Consider camera body, accessories, lenses, speedlights, the whole system. Go to any local shops, check out various camera bodies. Can you reach the ISO and Exposure Compensation Buttons, does it 'FIT' your hand. Try it with a moderate zoom. Make notes. Download manuals for cameras you like, read about custom settings, flash settings, ETC.

Buy a full frame body, at least two lenses and a speedlight. Cover approximately the range 24 to 200 mm, f2.8 maximum aperture. Buying used, you can probably get by for between $3000 and $4000 USD, maybe less. Unless you know a lot about post processing, go to school and learn Photoshop. You can and will buy more later.

Spend the next few months learning your equipment. Along with your camera manual, check aftermarket books about your camera.
Two books I recommend:
Composition: From Snapshots to Great Shots, by Laurie Excell
Understanding Exposure, by Bryan Peterson
Check your local library, both might be available.

Go to fairs, festivals, church socials. Take photos, posed and candid. For animals, check the local shelters, go to the parks and wild life areas. Post your photos for critical reviews. Observe professional photographers at events and weddings. Leave your camera at home or in your car. See how they get groups together, ETC.

In your 'spare time', write out a business plan. Find out about advertising, website, insurance and rental costs. See about licensing, taxes, permits, ETC. Check the library, online and book stores for articles and books on professional photography. So much to learn and think about.

Phil

 

[KmH]

Scrolling down into the forums further than Beyond the Basics there is The Aspiring Professionals Forum | Photography Forum

Starting your own studio and having a photography business means being the guy everyone else looks to for answers to the very questions you are asking.

Canon's EOS Rebel line of cameras is Canon's entry-level consumer/enthusiast grade line of DSLR cameras. Right now Canon only makes 1 professional grade DSLR camera - the $6800 1D X.
Canon also has prosumer grade DSLRs.

I took this shot with a 500 mm telephoto lens. Does it look flat to you?