Shooting F1.2 During The Day. CPL Enough? or ND Filter Needed?

[chuasam]

........I want to use it at 1.2 in all conditions to get the full experience of the lens. ............

What, exactly, do you think 'the full experience' of a lens is?

Apparently using it in an extreme manner since it is an extreme lens. Some of us like to stop down to get better image quality but, apparently, those of us who do are becoming obsolete.

I paid a bunch for my 105mm f/1.4...i'm damn well gonna use it at f/1.4

 

[fmw]

........I want to use it at 1.2 in all conditions to get the full experience of the lens. ............

What, exactly, do you think 'the full experience' of a lens is?

........I want to use it at 1.2 in all conditions to get the full experience of the lens. ............

What, exactly, do you think 'the full experience' of a lens is?

Apparently using it in an extreme manner since it is an extreme lens. Some of us like to stop down to get better image quality but, apparently, those of us who do are becoming obsolete.

I'd like to be able to use the entire aperture range it was designed with instead of being forced to step it down because it's too bright outside. I wouldn't buy a car with tires that could only be used when it's dry outside. I'd buy tires that could be used in both wet and dry conditions so I could use the car all the time. Just like wanting to put an ND filter on a lens so it can be used wide open all the time instead of being forced to step it down.

I stated that I might try this thing and hate using it at 1.2. I might leave it stepped down and not use it at 1.2 at all. However, since I've never used a fast lens like this before I want to at least put my self in a position with the right equipment so I can try it out and experience the lens as a whole.

I don't shoot with my 24-105 at f4 all the time, nor do I shoot my 11-16 at f2.8 all the time. I like knowing that I can though if I want to. I understand that shooting wide open isn't the best thing to do, nor will it give the sharpest highest quality photos. I'm just simply trying to experience everything this lens can do for the short period of time I'll have it. That is all

I think what you are failing to understand is the the maximum aperture is not used for the hell of it or to give you experiences. It is used when necessary because of low light conditions. The lens performs better stopped down so using it wide open in bright sunlight is kind of silly. Having a fast is lens is great. It allows you to get some images that might otherwise be difficult or impossible. But you should use it correctly. And it seems illogical to buy a filter for a lens that isn't yours in first place.

 

[fmw]

........I want to use it at 1.2 in all conditions to get the full experience of the lens. ............

What, exactly, do you think 'the full experience' of a lens is?

Apparently using it in an extreme manner since it is an extreme lens. Some of us like to stop down to get better image quality but, apparently, those of us who do are becoming obsolete.

I paid a bunch for my 105mm f/1.4...i'm damn well gonna use it at f/1.4

And you should when it is appropriate. Nobody is suggesting you shouldn't.

 

[Derrel]

"The whole point of the lens is to use it at F1.2."

Uhhhhh, NO, that is in no way, shape, or form "the whole point" of the lens. It is quite a wonderful lens stopped down to f/2.5 to f/3.2....really quite a nice lens. At f/1.2, you're sure to end up with plenty of ruined photos on normal scenes. The idea that using the lens wide-open at a ridiculously large aperture size is akin to stating that that the, "Whole idea of this Porsche is to drive it ONLY at 6,500 RPM in fifth gear." Or the idea of a fine,$200 a bottle, 18 year-old aged whiskey is to, "Drink the entire bottle in one sitting."

But whatevs...go ahead, they're your own images to make, with insufficient DOF be damned! I would wager that, at the most, perhaps one of one hundred and fifty images shot would actually BENEFIT from being made with an 85mm lens set to f/1.2.

 

[chuasam]

If you're gonna use it at 2.5 to 3.2...just save $1500 and get the 85mm f/1.8
Sharpness isn't everything....i love the glorious streaks and blur of a fast lens

 

[photo1x1.com]

........I want to use it at 1.2 in all conditions to get the full experience of the lens. ............

What, exactly, do you think 'the full experience' of a lens is?

........I want to use it at 1.2 in all conditions to get the full experience of the lens. ............

What, exactly, do you think 'the full experience' of a lens is?

Apparently using it in an extreme manner since it is an extreme lens. Some of us like to stop down to get better image quality but, apparently, those of us who do are becoming obsolete.

I'd like to be able to use the entire aperture range it was designed with instead of being forced to step it down because it's too bright outside. I wouldn't buy a car with tires that could only be used when it's dry outside. I'd buy tires that could be used in both wet and dry conditions so I could use the car all the time. Just like wanting to put an ND filter on a lens so it can be used wide open all the time instead of being forced to step it down.

I stated that I might try this thing and hate using it at 1.2. I might leave it stepped down and not use it at 1.2 at all. However, since I've never used a fast lens like this before I want to at least put my self in a position with the right equipment so I can try it out and experience the lens as a whole.

I don't shoot with my 24-105 at f4 all the time, nor do I shoot my 11-16 at f2.8 all the time. I like knowing that I can though if I want to. I understand that shooting wide open isn't the best thing to do, nor will it give the sharpest highest quality photos. I'm just simply trying to experience everything this lens can do for the short period of time I'll have it. That is all

I think what you are failing to understand is the the maximum aperture is not used for the hell of it or to give you experiences. It is used when necessary because of low light conditions. The lens performs better stopped down so using it wide open in bright sunlight is kind of silly. Having a fast is lens is great. It allows you to get some images that might otherwise be difficult or impossible. But you should use it correctly. And it seems illogical to buy a filter for a lens that isn't yours in first place.

Seems like there is quite a difference in opinion in this regard. We should all understand that tastes are different. Most of my clients demand the shallow DOF look for outdoor shootings these days. So I do buy lenses for shooting them wide open and some of them are awesome at that, others not so much. Especially older lenses tend to be quite bad compared to newer versions.

 

[jaomul]

It's an 85 f1.2 lens. Of course every shot won't be at f1.2, but there will be times when an f1.2 shot will be nice, heck some shooters style is to shoot wide open and with knowledge and experience great results can be had. Whether some don't like this f1.2 shooting is irrelevant, the OP wants to know how to do it in bright daylight, which I think is covered.

I don't get why it's such a bugbear to some when someone pays big money for a very fast lens, and jeez they want to use a very fast setting, how could they

 

[benhasajeep]

I will stay away from what stop to shoot the lens at. I think the OP has to opportunity to test / work with the lens. Those of us more experienced might have done the same thing when getting a new to us lens. I say let the OP experiment, and he will learn first hand why so many are putting suggestions forward.

My suggestion is on filters though. Good filters are expensive. I tend to buy B&W filters and have stuck with them for decades. I will occasionally buy Hoya's. I gave up on Tiffens and others years ago. Good filters are expensive! I don't have filters for every lens I own. Buying B&W's for every lens would be cost prohibitive and add a lot of weight to your bag. So, my suggestion is to buy a set of B&W ND filters ND.3, ND.6, ND.9, and ND 1.8 filters. And buy them for your largest lens thread size. Then buy adapter rings so the larger filters will fit on your smaller lenses. They are normally aluminum so don't weigh much, and little change of them breaking. And they are in the $10 to $15 dollar range. Can get s whole set for many possibilities for less than 1 filter. This will not work with very wide lenses as the adapter will move the filter slightly out and you will get Vignetting. It's a very good way to be able to afford great filters for the majority of your lenses!

 

[astroNikon]

With a f/1.2 lens, if you want to do f/1.2 or f/1.8 you have the ability to do that.
If you buy a f/1.8 lens and want to do f/1.2, well, you're kinda stuck with f/1.8.

using the more open apertures becomes quite a learning experience and pushes one's abilities.
And most importantly, if the customer wants it that way sometimes it's good to give them what they want.

 

[chuasam]

B+W aren't great filters. They're alright. There's some colour cast. If you want good filters get SinghRay or FireCrest

 

[TCampbell]

Wow, that was a lot of good info. Thank you. I've never heard of the "sunny 16" rule, but I'll definitely look into that. Sounds a bit over my head, but I'm sure it's simple once understood. I don't plan on using a flash (I know it helps out especially in bright light), just don't have one yet unfortunately.

It seems like I'll end up needing to get an ND filter which is no big deal. This is why I asked for opinions to help me figure this out before I get down there and can't really try out the lens in the way I'd like to. Like I previously mentioned, I might hate shooting it at 1.2 and end up stopping it down and not needing the ND filter. Better to have it though and see than to not have it and never know.

I'll keep reading up on different filters both solid and variable and figure out which style or type would be best. I appreciate all the advice.

The Sunny 16 rule is very old - it predates modern cameras. Basically it's based on the understanding that the brightness of the Sun doesn't change in any noticeable way over time. That means the amount of light I get outside, on a clear (sunny) day at mid-day is the same amount of light you get outside, on a clear day at mid-day (even though we don't live anywhere near each other). That means we can all assume we know precisely how bright it will be outside (even though we aren't there with a light meter to take our own measurement) and we know what exposure settings would work in that situation. The rule then goes on to suggest how much light you lose based on light-overcast, medium-overcast, or dense-overcast, as well as various amounts of shade.

For any given shot, there are lots of ways to combine the ISO, shutter speed, and aperture values to ultimately collect the amount of light that would result in a good exposure. The aperture values possible are of course limited by what the lens can offer. So a lens that can offer a particularly low focal ratio simply means you have even more choices.

The most obvious difference that you will notice when you use a low-focal ratio lens is that the range at which subjects appear to be more-or-less in acceptable focus ("depth of field" or "DoF") is considerably narrower. A lower focal ratio will help you gather in more light... but at the trade-off of having a narrower DoF. Sometimes having that narrower DoF is exactly what you want... and sometimes it's the opposite of what you want.

Shooting at f/1.2 is particularly challenging. This is not a good choice for candid photography (don't expect to take shots in a hurry). Shooting with DoF that narrow usually means you have the time to refine the focus to exactly the point where you want it and you're ok with that idea that almost nothing else is likely to be focused ... including not even 100% of a person's face.

 

[chuasam]

if you want to shoot at f/1.2, it's your choice. Far from it for us to tell you that you shouldn't.