Should I Be Upset About This?

[robbins.photo]

I agree, I am learning something here. Letting a lawyer do some of the reaching out work does not indicate necessarily, that a person is being unreasonable. In fact, it may nip a situation in the bud quicker and amicably.

And in some situations, maybe a good alternative. Just not one I'd necessarily recommend in this case.

 

[robbins.photo]

You folks do realize that the OP gave up on this before the end of the first page and is probably writing pms to all of you thanking you for your concern.

Actually I was a little busy trying to ward off the evil eye the ferret laid on me to notice... lol

 

[Buckster]

what sort of compensation would you be demanding from them if you were in the OP's position? and what would it actually take to get it from them if they choose to fight?

It's not that easy, and at this point I couldn't even make a guess, without quite a bit of research, which is something I don't do AFTER an infringement. I only do that when someone contacts me BEFORE using one of my images, in order to determine how much to charge them. It's not at all like the ala carte menu I use for portraiture.

When someone contacts me BEFORE they use an image, and asks about licensing fees for use, I use FotoQuote to determine the base licensing fee. From there, I may reduce it for various reasons, or even waive it entirely if I want to donate to their cause.

But in a situation like the OP's, I've authorized my VERY experienced copyright attorney, with a history of understanding the market value of various uses by various entities, to recommend the amount to pursue.

Part of what he does to figure that out is research the infringer to find out about them. Is it an individual, a company, a corporation? Is it merely local, regional, national, world-wide? Are they profit motivated or non-profit? What can they reasonably afford to pay vs standard market value for this use? What other ways have they used the image? Are they using it on other materials, brochures, websites, posters, or anything else? Are they distributing it in other ways?

He starts with a friendly but formal legal letter to the infringing party, explaining the situation, and legally demanding disclosure on any and all uses of the image. Subsequent to those findings, the amount we are seeking for their infringed use of the copyrighted image, which usually allows continued use of it. He is authorized by me to negotiate with them for more or even less money, to a point, again based on his experience, known market values, and even the infringer's circumstances.

If they cannot come to terms, he informs them that the next step is Federal court, where we will be seeking greater damages for the infringement and to cover the additional costs of having to take that step. That usually puts an end to it, as they would much prefer not to incur those additional damages, which can be quite severe.

I stay out of it all, from start to finish, dealing ONLY with my legal representative, so as not to accidentally muck up the works, and unintentionally screw myself or my attorney's efforts on my behalf. Occasionally an infringer will contact me directly after hearing from my attorney. Whatever they have to say or request, I simply refer them back to my attorney to work it out with him.

 

[NancyMoranG]

OP said the team isn't profiting by it. I still would ask how they came to use the image.
Did QB figure it's a picture of him and gave them permission ? (I know, I know)
Or did someone go to OP website and knowingly used it without permission?
Yup, I understand it's a business to a lot of you. And yup, have a lawyer on retainer for necessary things. But, Jeepers creepers, what ever happen to civility?
Today, hubby went out and got to the parking lot 10 minutes before opening. Guy was NOT going to open that gate til exactly 7 a.m.
I am the business owner opening my door when I see someone waiting.
People say, 'what has the world become..'

 

[Buckster]

By the way, all the references in this thread to "this poor kid" are kinda funny.

Hey, it threw me too. I went along with thinking they were "kids" since that's the way at least one member was referring to the player in the photo. Without researching the league, teams, players, fans, facilities, etc., I mentioned his "schoolmates", when it turns out these players are full grown adults, and the PIFL is serious business, not some local high school thing. I stand corrected.

Website for the Professional Indoor Football League: Tickets

Season tickets start at $75 on the first team's website I looked at.

With this professional football league's teams, players, cheerleaders, fans, stadiums, box seats, tickets, merchandise and all the rest - there's no doubt in my mind that it's about making money for somebody, just as much as any other professional sports league, just on a smaller scale.

Now try to imagine their league and team websites with no photos on them. Pretty boring, right? Yeah, that's why photos add value to websites like that, and that's why they should have no problem paying for that added value, IMHO.

Again, not my issue, since it's not my photo, but I personally wouldn't "donate" my work to a profitable organization like the PIFL, or any of it's teams, or any of it's "poor kid" players even, any more than I would donate it to the NFL.

But that's just me.

 

[pixmedic]

By the way, all the references in this thread to "this poor kid" are kinda funny.

Hey, it threw me too. I went along with thinking they were "kids" since that's the way at least one member was referring to the player in the photo. Without researching the league, teams, players, fans, facilities, etc., I mentioned his "schoolmates", when it turns out these players are full grown adults, and the PIFL is serious business, not some local high school thing. I stand corrected.

Website for the Professional Indoor Football League: Tickets

Season tickets start at $75 on the first team's website I looked at.

With this professional football league's teams, players, cheerleaders, fans, stadiums, box seats, tickets, merchandise and all the rest - there's no doubt in my mind that it's about making money for somebody, just as much as any other professional sports league, just on a smaller scale.

Now try to imagine their league and team websites with no photos on them. Pretty boring, right? Yeah, that's why photos add value to websites like that, and that's why they should have no problem paying for that added value, IMHO.

Again, not my issue, since it's not my photo, but I personally wouldn't "donate" my work to a profitable organization like the PIFL, or any of it's teams, or any of it's "poor kid" players even, any more than I would donate it to the NFL.


But that's just me.

the really weird part is that given that pertinent bit of information, im actually kinda mad about it now...and its not even my picture. i dunno...maybe it shouldn't even matter. maybe that's the whole point ive been missing.
why does one scenario make me mad but not the other? should it matter if they were for profit or not? kids or adults? (i assume adults manage the webpage) makes me think anyway....

 

[JacaRanda]

OP said the team isn't profiting by it. I still would ask how they came to use the image.
Did QB figure it's a picture of him and gave them permission ? (I know, I know)
Or did someone go to OP website and knowingly used it without permission?
Yup, I understand it's a business to a lot of you. And yup, have a lawyer on retainer for necessary things. But, Jeepers creepers, what ever happen to civility?
Today, hubby went out and got to the parking lot 10 minutes before opening. Guy was NOT going to open that gate til exactly 7 a.m.
I am the business owner opening my door when I see someone waiting.
People say, 'what has the world become..'

Was the gate keeper the owner? Could he have lost his job for opening the gate early? What kind of car was your hubby driving? What happened the last time the gate was opened early? The world has become what it always has I think it's always been; a bunch of individuals that decide how they want to be, based on a lot or reasons. Civility has never been world wide as far as I can tell. Would be nice.

Been watching too many episodes of Forensic Files lately, along with local and national and international news. I got to stop that.

 

[robbins.photo]

the really weird part is that given that pertinent bit of information, im actually kinda mad about it now...and its not even my picture. i dunno...maybe it shouldn't even matter. maybe that's the whole point ive been missing.
why does one scenario make me mad but not the other? should it matter if they were for profit or not? kids or adults? (i assume adults manage the webpage) makes me think anyway....

Ok, well, for the record.

Most arena teams are supposed to be "for profit" but as it turns out very, very few of them actually are making any kind of a profit. Most of them end up going under within a year or two of opening. The kids that play for them barely make enough money to make ends meet, and yes to me they are kids because I was out finding out what it was like to actually be stabbed long before any of them were a distant gleam in their daddies eyes.

But the truth is none of that is really that central to the issue at hand, the question for me at least is did the team knowingly violate this copyright, or not. And in this case, I seriously doubt it.

If this team had gone to the OP's website and appropriated the image that would be one thing, but the OP made it pretty clear that the team members were using these images on their facebook pages with his permission. So it seems only logical that the QB probably provided the new team with the picture without realizing there might be copyright issues.

So I still suggest that a polite email simply making the team aware that there are copyright issues is the best course of action. The rest is all smoke as far as I'm concerned. As usual, YMMV.

 

[robbins.photo]

Was the gate keeper the owner? Could he have lost his job for opening the gate early? What kind of car was your hubby driving? What happened the last time the gate was opened early? The world has become what it always has I think it's always been; a bunch of individuals that decide how they want to be, based on a lot or reasons. Civility has never been world wide as far as I can tell. Would be nice.

Been watching too many episodes of Forensic Files lately, along with local and national and international news. I got to stop that.

Can we get a DNA sample from said gatekeeper?

And no, I'm not volunteering, just asking.. lol

 

[JacaRanda]

The rest is all smoke as far as I'm concerned. As usual, YMMV.

Oh I see, back on the weed thing again. You must have been really high when you let that bear get so close.

BTW, it really works well to take the edge off of rheumatoid arthritis pain, especially when NONE of the other prescribed and expensive drugs work. Save a lung, eat a cookie.

 

[Parker219]

OP- Soooooo...did you get all that?

Are you still here?

 

[Buckster]

OP- Soooooo...did you get all that?

Are you still here?

 

[robbins.photo]

The rest is all smoke as far as I'm concerned. As usual, YMMV.

Oh I see, back on the weed thing again. You must have been really high when you let that bear get so close.

BTW, it really works well to take the edge off of rheumatoid arthritis pain, especially when NONE of the other prescribed and expensive drugs work. Save a lung, eat a cookie.

Never really was my thing to be honest. I'm weird enough sober, never needed any help. Lol

 

[vintagesnaps]

Usage of the photo should be licensed or the photo taken down since the OP owns the photo (and the copyright), and agreed to allow usage of his photos by the former Trenton team he was shooting for, not this current team.

I would probably contact this team's PR or media relations/communications director. Probably the team wanted a photo of their new player for the announcement, and since his former team in Trenton is defunct there is no former team to contact for a photo (so I'm guessing a staff person may have found the OP's photo somewhere online and doesn't know about licensing usage or that even though the team is defunct the photographer still owns the copyright).

The front office info. for the player's current team has staff listed without bios yet so I would take that to mean some staff have not been with the team long. (I would assume the PR person may not necessarily have been the one who obtained the OP's photo.)

I think I would call that person, write down what you plan to say, anything you want to be sure to ask, what they say, etc. It might be possible they'd want to license usage if they need to use the photo for preseason events/promotions, training camp, opening game night program, etc. If you license usage it should be for a specific time frame/specific purpose; once he's playing for them I'd think they wouldn't need the OP's photo because they'd have someone taking photos for them.

Since this player's former league is still in business (it looks like it is) I'd just make sure there weren't terms in a contract with the former team that allowed the league usage; if so it might be necessary to find out if the league by chance gave this photo to the new team in a different league.

I did minor pro hockey where off ice officials etc. are paid in free tickets, so I wouldn't expect a lot of money being involved here to make it worth pursuing a copyright violation in court. I feel like handling it in a professional way is best and see what you can work out.

This may or may not be relevant but there is other info. available on the ASMP site as well as PPA or other pro photographers resources.

What to do if your work is infringed | American Society of Media Photographers

 

[NancyMoranG]

OP said the team isn't profiting by it. I still would ask how they came to use the image.
Did QB figure it's a picture of him and gave them permission ? (I know, I know)
Or did someone go to OP website and knowingly used it without permission?
Yup, I understand it's a business to a lot of you. And yup, have a lawyer on retainer for necessary things. But, Jeepers creepers, what ever happen to civility?
Today, hubby went out and got to the parking lot 10 minutes before opening. Guy was NOT going to open that gate til exactly 7 a.m.
I am the business owner opening my door when I see someone waiting.
People say, 'what has the world become..'

Was the gate keeper the owner? Could he have lost his job for opening the gate early? What kind of car was your hubby driving? What happened the last time the gate was opened early? The world has become what it always has I think it's always been; a bunch of individuals that decide how they want to be, based on a lot or reasons. Civility has never been world wide as far as I can tell. Would be nice.

Been watching too many episodes of Forensic Files lately, along with local and national and international news. I got to stop that.

I get what you are saying. So let's say the guy can NOT open the gate or he gets fired. That's where I am the type to walk over and start chatting and explaining I can't let him in. Then talk about his kayak sticking out of the car....just say in' .

The real reason might be they probably got sued for opening early.