Should I get the Nikon D3s or the Canon 1D Mark IV?

Discussion in 'Photography Equipment & Products' started by schumionbike, Feb 11, 2010.

  1. schumionbike
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    schumionbike New Member

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    Hey guys, I'm going to be be shooting a wedding in two weeks for any ex-girlfriend of mine, which one of these camera should I get??


    Okay, just kidding guys.

    I found this video review comparing them head to head. Not the most scientific one in the world but it give a sense of performance of the two cameras. For me, I can't afford either of them but it's fun to see cameras with these rediculous perfornmances. Not to mention, the video is rather humorous. Btw, if you have any beef with the video, please leave the comments on youtube :)

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkg7pAxi4gE[/ame][ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkg7pAxi4gE"][/ame]
  2. Derrel
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    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Fun video! Major difference in the default, out-of-camera JPEG renderings between the Nikon and Canon. I liked the fun, light tone of the video.

    A side-by-side comparison of the same two cameras, with the Canon 5D Mark IK thrown in is found here.

    Canon EOS 1D Mark IV vs. Nikon D3s: ISO Comparison | neutralday

    EDIT on Feb 13,2010: Since I posted this, Rob Galbraith and his staff have published their month-long evaluation of the EOS 1D MArk IV and its autofocus performance. Their conclusion is here,and I think Canon executives will not like the conclusions.

    http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10048-10484
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2010
  3. inTempus
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    inTempus New Member

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    Yeah, I saw that a while back. It's a good video, very fun.
  4. cfusionpm
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    cfusionpm New Member

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    Nikon really cranks up the saturation in their default JPG settings!

    Funny video though, and was at least somewhat imformative. lol.
  5. inTempus
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    inTempus New Member

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    Yes they do, some folks think that heavily saturated images look better.

    I shoot in "standard" mode with my Canon's and choose to control the color saturation myself depending on what I'm doing. You can bump the saturation way up in JPGs from Canon if you want to though. I know you probably know this, I'm just mentioning it for others here who aren't familiar with Canon bodies.
  6. skieur
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    skieur New Member

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    Well, comparing images side by side, if you want sharpness go Canon 1D Mark !V. If you want low noise at high ISOs, go Nikon D3s, and if you want full frame at a cheaper price with sufficient add on features to shake a stick at, then go with Sony A750.

    skieur
  7. schumionbike
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    schumionbike New Member

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    Nikon's jpegs have a golden hue to them making the model look more Asian than the Canon's jpeg. In short, if you want to look more Asian (otherwise known as bronze in America), buy the Nikon.
  8. inTempus
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    inTempus New Member

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    You left out if you want the best autofocus system on the market, get the 1D4. And if you want the best HD video, get the 1D4.
  9. skieur
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    skieur New Member

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    It depends on what you mean by best autofocus system. If you mean picking the right area to focus on, then you may be correct. If you are talking about speed then you are wrong, according to lab tests by Popular Photography magazine. Sony apparently has the speediest autofocus.

    In HD Video, I suspect that the Sony A750 beats the ID4 with stereo sound, 60 fps, full HD, integrated live view and fast autofocus while shooting and this is on an inexpensive full frame camera.

    Nevertheless the ID4 may beat the Nikon D3s in those areas.

    skieur
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2010
  10. inTempus
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    inTempus New Member

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    In terms of AF accuracy in tracking moving targets, you know, the whole reason why people buy a body like this in the first place. :)

    The 1D4 does 60fps in full HD as well and has full stereo sound (using an external mic).
  11. skieur
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    skieur New Member

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    Actually I find that most cameras track moving objects pretty well. In my gallery there is a sharp image of a dog running full tilt straight toward me.
    The weakness I find in autofocus is in the still shots where it focuses on something in front of or behind your main subject. That is where more time is spent shifting to manual focus.

    I notice you have not said whether the ID4 has autofocus or liveview use while shooting video.???

    skieur
  12. GeneralBenson
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    GeneralBenson New Member

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    It seems from all these comparisons, that the 1D4 has some chroma-noise problems. Ang I use the word 'problems' lightly, seeing as how it's still a pretty darn amazing machine, and has very usable low light results. But in the comparison of the D3s, 1D4, and 5DMKII, the 1D4 has considerably more chroma-noise across the boards, and despite the fact that it's newer and has higher ISO options than the MKII, it does noticeably worse. I would have expected it to at least be equal on the lower setting like 1600-6400. Still a beast though. They said that everything had in camera NR turned off, but the D3s files still look pretty smoothed out and softened. Looks like it stil had NR running.
  13. inTempus
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    inTempus New Member

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    That's because the D3s most likely does have NR being applied in camera even to RAW files which is why they have such muddy details at high ISO. I prefer to do my own NR and having the D3s doing NR that I can't stop would be annoying.

    The chroma noise isn't that bad in the 1D4 and isn't really all that obvious until you hit ISO 6400. It's definitely there at 12800, but it still retains amazing detail (something the D3s doesn't). With good post NR like that by FlexNR it cleans up VERY nicely.
  14. inTempus
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    inTempus New Member

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    I've found that subjects running towards you isn't that tough of a test for any camera, including my 5D2 which has a pretty weak AF system by comparison.

    It's when you have a subject moving in zig-zag directions (like a basketball player or football player) that you challenge an AF system. Not all cameras can handle that, and they certainly all can't handle ignoring other players that dart in and out while staying focused on the target. That's why people want 1D's and D3's. If all cameras could do it, there would be no market for it.

    Do you have a 1D or D3 to compare to other bodies?

    Yes, the 1D4 has live view.

    It has AF but not real-time. You can activate it at any time, but it doesn't run the whole time you're filming. How many pro studios are using Sony DSLRs for video production? How many movies or television shows have been made using Sony DSLRs? I only ask because I honestly don't know.

    I do know that Canon's are being used for all sorts of stuff from making music videos to short feature films right now. You can find out more here. It's interesting.

    In your AF speed test you mentioned above, I was curious what lens or lenses they used in this test. Not all lenses are created equal. Did they average between lenses or pick the fastest lens offering from each manufacturer to do their tests? Just curious.
  15. schumionbike
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    schumionbike New Member

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    Guys guys guys, this is just for fun. If you have either of these cameras and you're complaining about noise, we need to ban you from photography. And if you get an OOF shot with either one of these, we'll ban you for that too :). Shouldn't we be talking about "Suk Mi" rather than these two cameras?
  16. Derrel
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    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    I think Canon's executives will cringe when they read the conclusions of a one-month long test and review from one of the web's most-respected authorities on sports journalism and education and training seminars, ROb Galbraith and his staff, including Mike Sturk, who side-by-side compared the Nikon D3s with the Canon 1D Mark IV.

    Rob Galbraith DPI: An analysis of EOS-1D Mark IV autofocus performance

    After a solid month's testing, largely with lenses calibrated by Canon, these are some of the conclusions the site reached:

    "Add it all up and the conclusion is inescapable: the EOS-1D Mark IV has an AF system that is capable of greatness but is also so bewilderingly variable that there's no way to trust it, especially for outdoor sports. Indoors, EOS-1D Mark IV autofocus performance has been less variable, but our results from speedskating and basketball are simply not up to par. If this is the best the company could muster, after the autofocus debacle of the EOS-1D Mark III, then it's official: Canon has lost their autofocus mojo."

    And, near the conclusion of the article:
    "It's worth noting one other fundamental difference between the AF system in the D3S and that of the EOS-1D Mark IV. When Nikon focus is out, it doesn't tend to be way out. More often than not, peak action frames that are not perfectly focused aren't that blurry, making some of them still viable. That is, if you're of a mind that it's better to have a slightly soft frame of a great peak moment than a totally blurry one. The EOS-1D Mark IV, on the other hand, produces many more frames that are too soft to use for anything, no matter how sweet the moment."

    "To sum up, our experience with the D3S' AF system is that it's trustworthy and dependable enough for us to be confident using it for peak action sports. Not perfect: it needs to be a bit faster off the line, in addition to the other quibbles we've mentioned. But it does work as needed most of the time, which is in stark contrast to the experience of the EOS-1D Mark IV in the last month."

    For those who wish to actually SEE for themselves, the good and the bad, Rob is graciously hosting a huge collection of actual Canon 1D Mark IV files.

    Rob Galbraith DPI: Seeing for yourself

    Here, you can download apprx. 900 EOS 1D Mark IV files,shot with
    • EF 85mm f/1.8
    • EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS (focus calibrated by Canon service)
    • EF 300mm f/2.8L IS (focus calibrated by Canon service)
    • EF 400mm f/2.8L IS (new and supplied by Canon USA; before shipping its focus was checked by Canon service)
    • EF 400mm f/2.8L IS (borrowed briefly to compare to Canon USA supplied 400mm)
    • EF 400mm f/2.8L II (used briefly to compare to newer IS version)

    Nearly all of the downloadable pictures were captured with the calibrated EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS, calibrated EF 300mm f/2.8L IS or focus checked EF 400mm f/2.8L IS. These large, high-quality photos are spread over 5 large zip files ranging from 176 megabytes to 868 megabytes, and 139 to 344 camera files in size.
  17. Montana
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    Montana New Member

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    Whats funny is that he is the only pro shooter with these issues. Many shooters are shooting the exact sports he claims that the camera falls on its face. What is even more funny is all the Nikon ads on his page. And for an even better laugh, many pro sports and BIF shooters are questioning Rob's custom function settings pertaining to autofocus. LOL

    I say take everything you read there with a huge grain of salt. Not saying he didn't have issues, but there are some discrepencies already shown.

    However, if Canon did flop again, it will be a serious kick in the rear end. The only flaw in the testing of my mkIV thus far has been me. LOL I have just started dialing in my autofocus settings. I have one lens yet to test, the 600 f/4 IS.

    I am curious what the post olympic photogs will have to say.


    Where is the popcorn munching smiley?
  18. inTempus
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    inTempus New Member

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    [​IMG]
  19. Montana
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    Montana New Member

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    I am not saying Rob didn't have issues, but I am also a firm believer that its human nature to be biased. I am sure that there is some bad blood between Rob and Canon. I can only hope that he is not right.......or that I don't ever have to shoot a soccer match. LOL

    I still question his use of some of the default settings that he didn't change. I know it'll be more than a few months before I have my settings figured out. Too bad there is so much snow and nothing to shoot.
  20. inTempus
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    inTempus New Member

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    Yeah, if you recall the whole 1D3 flap that he helped to uncover, he never updated his article once the fix was made available. Some speculate bad blood between him and Canon since he dropped it after so much ta-do and never commented once things were resolved.

    Every independent review I've read (e.g. people that don't take money from Nikon or Canon for that matter) has shown the 1D3 significantly beating the D3 in AF performance. The D3s and the D3 share the exact same AF system.

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