should i upgrade my gear??

Mihai · Sep 14, 2006

Digital Matt said:
The same picture on the 30D will be cropped, because of the smaller sensor, to an equivalent field of view from a 640mm lens.

Matt, don't look inside the box. Just at the input (scene) and output (picture). I know that 30D crops. And that the two lenses have different focal lenghts. Just tell me if you're able to tell (apart from the noise) that the two pictures have been take with different cameras and lenses.

M.

Digital Matt · Sep 15, 2006

http://www.millhouse.nl/digitalcropfactorframe.html

Orgnoi1 · Sep 15, 2006

I will just say this... because this thread has gotten out of hand with the crop factor BS (as they usually do)... for anyone that has actually used the 5D vs. the people that havent... once you DO use the 5D your 20D wont get my use past then... I actually was always planning on keeping my 20D for a backup to either my 1D Mark II or 5D (which ever I was using at the time) but its sold... and gone... it didnt go out in the field since I bought the 5D.... FWIW

darich · Sep 15, 2006

Orgnoi1 said:
I will just say this... because this thread has gotten out of hand with the crop factor BS (as they usually do)... for anyone that has actually used the 5D vs. the people that havent... once you DO use the 5D your 20D wont get my use past then... I actually was always planning on keeping my 20D for a backup to either my 1D Mark II or 5D (which ever I was using at the time) but its sold... and gone... it didnt go out in the field since I bought the 5D.... FWIW

Although i had thought about keeping the 20D as a back up, i suppose i always knew i'd sell it. When i went digital i decided to keep my 2 EOS500s as back up. But once i had gone digital they were never used and were gathering dust so they were sold.

I would sell the 20D once i had replaced it - combined with the 10-22mm lens it'll take about £600-700 off the price of the 5D.

Mihai · Sep 15, 2006

Matt, if I read the answer in the page correctly, the answer is "Yes, the two pictures will be the same".

M.

Digital Matt · Sep 15, 2006

I don't see why this is so hard to understand. How can they be the same, when one shows less of the field of view. *pulling my hair out here*

thebeginning · Sep 15, 2006

Digital Matt said:
I don't see why this is so hard to understand. How can they be the same, when one shows less of the field of view. *pulling my hair out here*

no you're right matt. people just freak out about the crop factor thing sometimes...

darich - selling the 10-22 and 20d will definitely lessen the price of the 5d and 17-40 (the 17-40 is actually around the same price as the 10-22). the only reason to keep it would be if you did weddings or something where switching lenses was really inconvenient...or if you wanted to do sports stuff or something (i'm going to assume you understand why i said that, i sure hope a huge debate doesnt occure because of that

)

darich · Sep 16, 2006

thebeginning said:
no you're right matt. people just freak out about the crop factor thing sometimes...

darich - selling the 10-22 and 20d will definitely lessen the price of the 5d and 17-40 (the 17-40 is actually around the same price as the 10-22). the only reason to keep it would be if you did weddings or something where switching lenses was really inconvenient...or if you wanted to do sports stuff or something (i'm going to assume you understand why i said that, i sure hope a huge debate doesnt occure because of that )

i know exactly what you mean. I've always managed to get by on one camera until now and since nothing has changed, one camera will be plenty for me!
As for the price of the 17-40 and 10-22 - they may be the same price but my 10-22 is used and i'd like a new 17-40 so it'll take a chunk off the price but not all.
Good thing is i already have 3 77mm polarizers so the 17-40mm lens will fit my existing filters.

Torus34 · Sep 16, 2006

Camera discussions are often cluttered with personal preferences, brand loyalties and strange, but very interesting, diversions into arcane paths and byways.

Here's another one. Just for kicks, try cutting to this particular chase.

You're considering the more expensive camera because it will make better 20x30's, which you sell. The assumption is that by making better 20x30's, you will increase your sales. [If not, there's no economic reason for the purchase!] Simple accounting math then applies. In business, a purchase of 'capital' equipment is based on payout. A three year payout seems reasonable based on the evolution of digital rigs and the expectations of the customers. Consider the bottom line profit of a 20x30, the cost of the camera [Don't forget to include all of those little add-ons such as spare battery, memory card(s), lenses, etc.] and the estimated increase in sales to be gained through the purchase. It's a rough approximation, but easy to do.

The result may be enlightening.

xfloggingkylex · Sep 17, 2006

Digital Matt said:
I don't see why this is so hard to understand. How can they be the same, when one shows less of the field of view. *pulling my hair out here*

the problem is that you keep saying it is a crop factor of 1.6x, while the site you posted said using a 25mm focal length on the camera results in a 37mm equivalent on a 35mm camera (thats 1.5x, 1.6 would be 40)

Mihai said a 600mm full framed and a 400mm on a 30D (1.5x factor=600), would there be a difference?

hope this clears things up.

Mihai · Sep 17, 2006

Digital Matt said:
I don't see why this is so hard to understand. How can they be the same, when one shows less of the field of view. *pulling my hair out here*

Before you finish pulling all the hair out, perhaps you would take the time to see the numbers I posted.

I believe that a pic taken with a 50mm on a APC sensor would have the same field of view (pulling some more hair?) as an 80mm on a full sensor (assuming a 1.6 crop factor like for Canon). Is this not correct?

Same for the 400mm and the 600mm (assuming a crop factor of 1.5 like for Nikon).

So?
M.

DocFrankenstein · Sep 17, 2006

5D will last you 2-3 years. It means depreciation of about a 1000 in the first year and 500 every successive year.

If you're gonna make a more than 3 grand on large prints, then sure - get the thing.

If it's just a few prints, you're end up losing a couple hundred bucks on every print.

Be accountable for your money. (accounting... ta-bump

) funny.

Tolyk · Sep 18, 2006

xfloggingkylex said:
the problem is that you keep saying it is a crop factor of 1.6x, while the site you posted said using a 25mm focal length on the camera results in a 37mm equivalent on a 35mm camera (thats 1.5x, 1.6 would be 40)

Mihai said a 600mm full framed and a 400mm on a 30D (1.5x factor=600), would there be a difference?

hope this clears things up.

The site is discussing Nikon cameras, so 1.5 is correct, as it states a little bit further down the page.

I know some people have gotten annoyed at this debate, but I've actually found it quite informative. Thanks guys

Sultan AlZaabi · Sep 18, 2006

This is my first post on this nice Forum.

Hi there,
... How are you hope you are fine, OK really would you like to take my advice take the ( Canon EOS 1Ds MK II ) and save the Canon EOS 20D with you, AND You can use the lens for 20D to the 1Ds MK II.

Canon EOS 1Ds MK II option's (( £5,999 (UK), $7,999 (US) ))
We are talking about somthing huge.
01. Rus-16.4 megapixels
02. WOoOoOW 45 AF FOCUS AREA
03. Full Frame that means 10mm is still 10mm not the same of " Canon EOS 20D " 10mm means 16mm big DIFFERENT - but there is problem with the full frame it's gives a noise on the picture ask the people who's using " Canon EOS 5D + Canon EOS 1Ds Mark II " and they will tell you.
04. 0.3 second start up and 4fps performance.
06. Digital Photo Professional v1.5 RAW processing s/ware with support for sRGB, Adobe RGB and wide gamut RGB colour spaces plus various European, North American and Japanese standard CMYK separation simulations.
07. Hi-Speed FireWire, & Video out i/face for complete connectivity.
08. Dual high performance SD and CF/CF-II card slots (supports cards greater than 2GB).
09. Complete compatibility to all EF lenses & EX-series Speedlites.
10. 2.0 LCD screen with 230,000 pixels, 1.5-10x playback zoom.
11. Simultaneous RAW & JPEG shooting.
12. Battery life approximately 1200 shots @ 20C, 800 at 0C in accordance with CIPA testing standards.
----- ----- -----

On the last, it's back to you it's your money, think well and take what you trust for your future for your hoppies and for your work.

Regards
---- ---- ----
Sultan AlZaabi

darich · Sep 19, 2006

Well guys.....I've gone and done it.
I bought a 5D and it should be delivered tomorrow (Wednesday) all being well.

Looking forward to full frame shots and a few large prints!!