These were lit with diode bike lights and a mag light, using a minolta d5 and a 50mm sigma macro at f22 and somewhere around 2-8 seconds using the self timer on a tripod. It is also a bit of a cheat as i duplicated it to another layer in photoshop desaturated the new layer and set it to multiply at 18% to give more contrast, do you think the final or the original (here http://thebort.net/tpe/macro11.jpg ) is better? Please be critical or even just derisory and flippant (It would be much better than "nice" comments)... I do apreciate it, so have a ball and put your boot in. I have no background in photography (and absoloutly no pride to fall from) and cant/wont answer back . So far it is all guesswork (which i am enjoying) as to what should/can work, and i would like to change that :hug:: (the guesswork part). thanks yours from cold dark denmark, tim.