silver gelatin help

Discussion in 'Beyond the Basics' started by rst, Jul 30, 2007.

  1. rst

    rst TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    i have a photograph that recently acquired a ripple in the paper. sadly it is right in the middle of janis joplins forehead. the techs for the gallery say there isn't anything that can be done to smooth out the ripple, its a natural tendancy of silver gelatin prints to ripple like that, so i just have to suck it up. they deal mostly in apintings and i figured that photography experts might be a little more helpful. anyone have any ideas? i don't expect that it will be perfect, but any improvements would be great.
    thanks in advance for any help.
     
  2. ann

    ann No longer a newbie, moving up!

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,263
    Likes Received:
    189
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    when you say ripple, do you mean the paper is bent?

    a natural tendancy to ripple, i have never seen that , and i have been doing silver printing for almost 60 years. I have seen fiber paper curl and not be flat unless it has been placed under weights or a dry mount press.

    Usually "ripples" occur because of mis-handling of a print.

    Is it mounted to a board or just a loose print, if it is loose you could try re-washing it and letting it air dry then place it under some heavy books, or have it dry mounting on a matt board which may hide the "ripple".

    if it is a bend in the paper, it will never disappear. Put the photo in a frame behind a window with non glare glass and it may be hard to see.
     
  3. Paul Ron

    Paul Ron TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2003
    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    NYC
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    Slow down here. You have a B&W print of Janis Japlin that has a ripple in it. That is common for fiber prints if they are not dry mounted on a matt board. The humidity effects the print and causes it to ripple or as we call it curl.

    If you put that print in a dry mount press between 2 boards for a couple of minutes it will flatten right out. I'd mount it with dry mount tissue though on an acid free matt board and frame it. After all Janis Joplin pics are probably collectors items these days.
     
  4. rst

    rst TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    first of all, thanks for such quick responses.
    its currently in a museum quality frame (all the acid free stuff) and they say its "conservation hung" which means there are little tabs all the way around that mount the photo to a board. i'm okay with the fact that there is going to be on occassion where they ripple. some of the other pieces have them around the sides, its just that this is right in the middle of her head. the edges are ok though. its like someone pushed real hard and stretched the paper in a small spot.

    so what do you think is a better choice rewash or dry press? i think they are going to dry press it, but they say the spot will just come back again.
     
  5. Hertz van Rental

    Hertz van Rental TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    16,728
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    Where am I now?
    If the paper and emulsion have been stretched or distorted then there is no point in re-washing. The paper will not shrink back and you will more likely do more damage.
    I'd need to actually see the print before I could say what had happened and if there was a cure. There are so many ways prints can get damaged and far fewer ways of fixing them. And it is always the case that unless you know exactly what caused the problem any remedial action you take will almost certainly be the wrong action.
    In short my advice is to leave it alone.
    Then find a museum with a historic photo collection and make contact with their conservator. Let him see the print. He'll be best placed to advise.
    Trust me. I used to be a photo conservation advisor to several London museums.
     
  6. ann

    ann No longer a newbie, moving up!

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,263
    Likes Received:
    189
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    i would second the gentlemen's above suggestion.

    I made suggestion based on limited knowledge of the situtation, that it is already hinged and framed puts things in a different light.
     
  7. Paul Ron

    Paul Ron TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2003
    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    NYC
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    Now that you say it's conservation mounted, it tells me that it is not dry tissue mount. There must be a reason for doing it this way. I'd say leave it alone and enjoy it as is but then again it's not mine and I have no idea what the value of such a picture is. I saw her at concerts and have plenty of my own pics.

    I don't know where you live, but here in NYC we have many galleries dealing with fine art n collector items. Based on seeing the picture, they can tell you the best way to handel this. By dry mounting it, you may devaluate the worth of the photo, where on the other hand by not doing it you may jeapodize the integrity of the photo.

    So go get professional advise despite the well intentions of everyone here.

    .
     
  8. rst

    rst TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks for the advice everyone. don't worry i won't go crazy and jump the gun on a repair. i'm just looking at possibilities first. i am actually an art consultant trying to help a client. in this instance i am essentially a go-between and wanted to make sure the company is considering every option. they are professionals, but they are also penny pinchers.
    the piece is a francesco scavullo photograph. its not worth a fortune but it isn't cheap and i hate to see my clients unhappy.
    i think the best way to describe the dent would be like the ripples from dropping a pebble in a pond. its basicallty an undulation in the paper.
     
  9. rst

    rst TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    well i received the photo back from my company and it doesn't look much better. during the interum i spoke with a few people and they seem to have the same suggestions. either heat it up and press it, or wet it and press it. i want to take it to a professional for a full inspection, but a professional what? photographer, a framer? what do you guys think i should search for? i live in san francisco so i should be able to find what i need as soon as i know what i need.
    and also, which do you guys think is safer: a heat press or a wet press? and what should something like that cost?
     
  10. Paul Ron

    Paul Ron TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2003
    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    NYC
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    Bring it over my house tonight and I'll dry mount it for ya in 10 minutes.
     
  11. rst

    rst TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    that would be a tremendous help but i think NYC is a bit of a drive from here. so you think dry mount is the best option? i was told that it would make the piece flat but air bubbles might arise later. so what would something like that cost?
     
  12. ann

    ann No longer a newbie, moving up!

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    4,263
    Likes Received:
    189
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    a professional framer should be able to dry mount a photo without have issues later; i.e. air bubbles.

    My students dry mount all the time, and i haven't seen an air bubble from them in over 15 years.

    the cost will depend on the size .
     

Share This Page

Search tags for this page

dry mounting silver gelatin

,

going beyond basic silver gelatin printing

,

how to fix dents in silver gelatin photograph

,

how to mount silver gelatin prints

,

silver gelatin rippling