Slack or plainly inept?

[Buszaj]

I read the manual! Yay!! And I'm in the culprit category (16) But I think Garbz is right, reading the manual does help a lot. If ppl read it more often, less of those threads that can be answered in the manual.

 

[Joxby]

Its symptomatic of todays society, people want things now now now, it just appears easier and quicker to ask than to spend time buried in a manual.
I notice few of these "manual" questions are asked for film cameras, parrallels can surely be drawn between the convenience of digital as a work ethic and the questions asked.

 

[usayit]

I agree... and extends to almost everything in our lives.. each generation being groomed for more of the same thing as the last.

Scary isn't it?

 

[Jon, The Elder]

I designed, wrote, illustrated and authored technical and "how to" publications for various industries (primarily automotive). It has always been a problem, on any level, to get the 'potential' reader to open the pub.

It is hard work, making your eyes move left to right, and up and down. You have to have coordination of hands to turn pages, its all so time consuming.
On top of that, the reader must be able to comprehend the many little groups of letters that make up words and sentences (or worse, numbers). Then they must strain their brain to convert this to some kind of overall understanding of the solution to a problem.

Even if they try, they want a 'guarantee' that they will get the correct solution on their first effort.

If you might not be sucessful on the first try, why bother?

 

[elsaspet]

I'm one of those people who can read manuals until my eyes bleed, and I still "don't get it".
I'm a show me person, or at very least I want really simple dimple step by step instructions.
Luckily for me, people didn't mind helping.

 

[Mike_E]

LOL Still angry Jon?

There is another dynamic. New posters, being new, want to get into the conversation right away. Quite a number of them are not overly experienced and try as they might, in their exuberance, ask questions which upon sober reflection they would not have asked.

This is not to say that there aren't some some slackers out there but let's not do the whole 'babe in the bathwater thing'.

 

[Chris of Arabia]

From my recollection, when I started taking pictures, I couldn't get enough material to read on the subject, whether in the form of books or magazines. Going back 25 years (and a bit), there wasn't an internet and it was a case of learn by reading, join a photography club, or if you had a very accommodating photography shop proprietor, you could pump them for info.

Today, everything is one tap and somewhere like TPF contains an amorphous mass of people with a like interest and probably vastly more experience than our occassionally maligned 'newbie''.

A lot of the time, the people mentioned don't know what question they should be asking, so how can they turn up decent information in a search, especially where the internet can throw up just as much bad info as good. Where better then, than to drop on here and ask the immortal question: Canon or Nikon (all the while bearing the good/bad info comment in mind)?

I can't see the comment here, but someone recently made a point about reading up on books on general photographic techniques as opposed specifically digital ones. That seems a sensible tack to me.

Hang on, what have I said so far, need a recap...

We live in an age where many suffer from information overload, why would we expect the field of photography be any different? Maybe all our our newbie wants is someone to help them make sense of it - once upon a time the sources of information were more limited and the delivery mechanism was subject to more validation than much of what we see now. Perhaps good information is actually harder to find now than it used to be?

PS. I reserve the right to ask dumb questions whenever the need arises...

PPS. Delete approx 15% ramble factor from the above - you chose which bits...

 

[Jon, The Elder]

There is another dynamic. New posters, being new, want to get into the conversation right away. Quite a number of them are not overly experienced and try as they might, in their exuberance, ask questions which upon sober reflection they would not have asked.

Thanks Mike....quite insightful. I'm sure this is so true, especially on a forum where they want to be 'one-of-the-people'.

I was (am) not angry, just saddened by some.

Had a boss who once said to me..."don't expect too much from people, that way you won't be so disappointed".

 

[Garbz]

I'm one of those people who can read manuals until my eyes bleed, and I still "don't get it".
I'm a show me person, or at very least I want really simple dimple step by step instructions.
Luckily for me, people didn't mind helping.

Yes but based on what I've seen of you on the forum you're still the type to make an attempt at solving your problems rather than shafting your issues off to others to solve. Even if you don't understand manuals there have been some questions asked on this forum alone which could be answered simply by hitting the menu button on the camera and looking at the possible options that come up.

What about the classical "What is aperture" If you google it the first thing that comes up is the wikipedia entry.

Chris the point is not a matter of being unable to sort the information given, it's about making an effort. I have nothing against dumb questions (or dumb people for that matter) as long as I can see they make at least some kind of effort. Thankfully we have not yet seen the question of "how do I take a picture" on this forum. At least on the whole people can still find the shutter button.

Jon that quote will stay with me for ever

 

[Chris of Arabia]

Garbz, I should have made myself clearer. I understand the question and the jaded cynic in me would love to just say you're right ("attaboy" if you like ), I just don't think it's the whole picture - though it may be a bigger part than we'd like to admit. At the end of the day, everybody has the right to ask dumb questions, it's just that some abuse the privilage...

 

[Garbz]

... Hahahah yes very good point. That right should be earned in my opinion, but hey can't have it all.

 

[elsaspet]

Yes but based on what I've seen of you on the forum you're still the type to make an attempt at solving your problems rather than shafting your issues off to others to solve. Even if you don't understand manuals there have been some questions asked on this forum alone which could be answered simply by hitting the menu button on the camera and looking at the possible options that come up.

What about the classical "What is aperture" If you google it the first thing that comes up is the wikipedia entry.

Chris the point is not a matter of being unable to sort the information given, it's about making an effort. I have nothing against dumb questions (or dumb people for that matter) as long as I can see they make at least some kind of effort. Thankfully we have not yet seen the question of "how do I take a picture" on this forum. At least on the whole people can still find the shutter button.

Jon that quote will stay with me for ever

You give me way too much credit Garbz. Many still here from years ago can attest to the fact that I asked every "stupid" question in the book. I had no idea what "DOF" was, or why in the world I would ever use it. I wanted to know the "standard" equipment needed for shooting, and the "standard" ISO for weddings. I couldn't figure out for the longest time why my ISO 400, straight on flash, at f8 AV reception shots looked like crap. You name the cunnundrum, I had it.
Yes, I could have bought EVEN more books, looked at every cockeyed explaination on the internet, or fumbled with the dials for infinity trying to figure it out for myself, but it was easier.....YES EASIER...to ask a trusted group of people for possible answers.
Yes, the same questions show up all the time. And yes, it can be a drag sometimes to help out a new person. But what is the harm? What skin is it off anyone's nose?
I'm on another forum chocked full of some of the most famous wedding/portrait photographers on the planet. I'll see the same old worn out questions ALL the time. Stuff you think a pro wedding/portrait photographer should know. However, these rockstar photogs, Bussink, Reggie, Yervant, Beckstead, , Sergio....onandonandon....never amaze me at how ready they are to answer even the most mundane of questions, from the most beginner of poster.
Yeah, it takes a second, and yeah, it's the same question two days later..........but it's ok really. Some of us just learn differently.

 

[elsaspet]

Thanks Mike....quite insightful. I'm sure this is so true, especially on a forum where they want to be 'one-of-the-people'.

I was (am) not angry, just saddened by some.

Had a boss who once said to me..."don't expect too much from people, that way you won't be so disappointed".

Why would it make you sad Jon? All you have to do is hit the little "Ignore Poster" or "Ignore Thread" dittie. (Pot calling kettle....I know...LOL).
Anyhow, there is two ways to look at it. You can look at others as slackers, or you can look at them as eager to learn.
Or maybe you can look at it as being hopefully, the guy, who finally made them understand what their techie problem meant.
Peace!

 

[elsaspet]

Oh and Garbz, the question that confounded me.....and wore others out for months was, "Why would you use and UNSHARP mask to sharpen things?" LOL. Serious true question that stumped me forever!

 

[RyanLilly]

...That little book that came with you camera, I don't want to hear you complain about it being over 100 pages, READ IT...

Actually its only 50 pages; the other 50 are the same thing in Spanish.