Steve's Digi-Cams

Discussion in 'Photography Equipment & Products' started by CMan, Dec 20, 2006.

  1. CMan

    CMan TPF Noob!

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    Here are six identical images from different cameras on Steve's Digicam's. Unprocessed.

    30D
    http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/30d/samples/IMG_8618.JPG

    400D
    http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/rebelxti/samples/IMG_1559.JPG

    D50
    http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/d50/samples/DSC_0136_NEF.JPG

    D70s
    http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/d70s/samples/DSC_0492_NEF.jpg

    D80
    http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/d80/samples/dsc_0937.jpg

    D200
    http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/d200/samples/DSC_0320.JPG



    Now, can anyone explain to me why the 6 MP Nikon's have the sharpest image under crop? The four other cameras; slightly soft with the 400D being (to my eyes) the best. But the D70s and D50; absolutely crystal. Is the 6 MP sensor in those two cameras really better in that way, or am I seeing things? Try cropping in on the door of the red building, or one of the window units on the other structure.
     
  2. Don Simon

    Don Simon TPF Noob!

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    Well I can't say for certain but if you check the Sample Pictures page for each it looks like the processing e.g. sharpening was different, so I don't really know how comparable the images actually are. Other than that, I dunno, maybe a better tripod used for one? Basically what I'm saying is that comparisons of this kind aren't 100% useful even when they're done under the most controlled conditions... which these aren't.
     
  3. CMan

    CMan TPF Noob!

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    I did a little more research; and I found that on the Nikon's the in camera sharpening was bumped up. I found a picture taken with the 400D that had the sharpening increased, and it was much better, so you are correct.
     
  4. fmw

    fmw No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    I didn't look at them because I'm on dial up this morning but, unless you are looking at raw files, they will tell you nothing about sensors. They will tell you more about software.
     
  5. mysteryscribe

    mysteryscribe TPF Noob!

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    If they were all set at max software performance, I would be just as interested to know that as their purely hardware only capabilities.

    For instance if a $500 camera at max software is very close to a $5,000 camera at max software, I would sure like to know it.

    So maybe there should a both kinds of shots included.
     
  6. CMan

    CMan TPF Noob!

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    Each camera has maybe, two or three shots of this subject. For raw to jpeg converts, it says, "RAW conv to JPEG, DPP Sharpness..." and then a number, sometimes 5 or 7, sometimes less.

    The unprocessed (at least I think they are) JPEG's from all the cameras seem to come out soft, but when I take them into PS and bump up the sharpness just a notch, then they are just as sharp as anything.

    So I guess I was putting more into this then I should have been; all it takes is 10 seconds of post processing. However, I agree with mysteryscribe; I'd like to see images from each camera that are guaranteed to be completely free of editing, processing or anything else, so I could see if a 5D really is that much better than a D50.
     
  7. Big Mike

    Big Mike I am Big, I am Mike Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Don't forget about the differences in the lenses.

    The 5D has a full frame (35mm) sensor...which gives it the advantage over any of those other cameras.
     
  8. fmw

    fmw No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    If they are jpegs then you aren't comparing sensors at all. You are comparing software designed to produce what the software writer considers to be best. My opinion is that sensors are sensors and they all work about the same way. There are differences in sensor size and pixel dimension which have whatever affect they have on images. But sensor quality is probably not an issue worth discussion, at least in my experience.
     
  9. markc

    markc TPF Noob!

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    In my opinion, if you are going to be spending the money on a 5D, you probably should be shooting RAW and doing all the processing in your own software anyway. I consider things like built-in sharpening to be added marketing fluff for cameras of that level. It belongs in the realm of the P&S where the camera decides everything for you, which is appropriate.
     
  10. mysteryscribe

    mysteryscribe TPF Noob!

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    My opinion is..... drum roll...... I have no opinion (is that a first of what)
     
  11. Don Simon

    Don Simon TPF Noob!

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    Ah but now we're getting into the RAW vs Jpeg thing again, and from past discussions it seems that even the pros can't reach a consensus on this (in fact it's often those who shoot professionally who claim to prefer the convenience of Jpeg). Personally I agree, I can't imagine shooting Jpeg unless I was either running out of space on the card or needed to print or upload the shots immediately without time for processing. But that doesn't necessarily mean that people who own and know how to use a high-end camera don't or shouldn't shoot Jpeg.

    Anyway on the 'comparison' issue I agree that comparing Jpegs straight-from-camera tells you nothing about the sensor quality... but it does tell you about the Jpegs straight-from-camera, which could potentially be useful. But certainly not a way to tell if one camera is 'better' than another. Even when looking at files converted from RAW there's the matter of some converters getting more out of some camera's RAW files than others. Basically when you also factor in the different lenses, focus etc, what it comes down to is, the 'comparison shots that shows you which camera is better' ain't that great.
     
  12. markc

    markc TPF Noob!

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    Good point. If you need quick processing, it's nice to have. Some people rely on speed for their business. It still makes me cringe, though. :p

    I agree on the troubles with trying to get a valid comparison.
     

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