SU-4 Mode vs Remote mode

D-50 · Apr 12, 2008

I was just reading a bit about SU-4 mode on an Sb800 I am not really sure the difference between that and using it i remote mode. What is the difference or is it the smae thing?

JerryPH · Apr 12, 2008

SU-4 mode you control light output from the flash.

Remote mode you control light output from the camera, if it is one like a D80 or D200.

D-50 · Apr 12, 2008

Is that the only difference. If so I dont understand the use of SU-4 I would much rather control the flash from my camera than have to walk all the way over to the flash to change its output.

Garbz · Apr 13, 2008

Wow Jerry there's such a thing as over simplification.

SU-4 is a wireless flash mode that triggers the flash when it sees an incoming flash signal. This works with every camera regardless if it's a point and shoot or a Canon 1Ds. Everything is controlled by the flash, the flash uses A mode (it checks it's own light reading depending on what it's pointing at) or it can be set to Manual mode.

Remote is Nikon's propriety Creative Lighting System mode. The flash is given a Group number and all you can control is the zoom head on it. Everything else is controlled from a Nikon CLS Commander flash like the SB-800, or the popup flash on the D80,D200,D300,D3 and other recent Nikons. This has the advantage that because there's actual data communication happening the camera can ask the flash to fire a TTL metering burst, measure the light, and then tell the flash how it should fire and when. Full iTTL flash metering is maintained using remote mode.

JerryPH · Apr 13, 2008

Garbz said:
Wow Jerry there's such a thing as over simplification.

Maybe, In reference to his situation, thats all that I felt was needed. Was I wrong?

He asked the difference between the two in relation to his camera/flash... I gave all that he needed. :mrgreen:

D-50 · Apr 17, 2008

I guess I meant to ask the advantages of using one over the other. I currently use my flashes in remote mode but was wondering if SU-4 mode would be better.

Garbz · Apr 18, 2008

Definitely not. As I said above. SU-4 turns your flash into a dumb slave.

Remote mode turns it into a fully iTTL controlled CLS lighting system.

Things you can't do with SU-4:
- TTL metering
- Control from the camera
- Take a photo where the camera flash does NOT illuminate the scene.

D-50 · Apr 18, 2008

Thats what I thouht but I recently read an article on strobist about how SU-4 mode is great. To me it sounds like remote is much better

JerryPH · Apr 18, 2008

D-50 said:
Thats what I thouht but I recently read an article on strobist about how SU-4 mode is great. To me it sounds like remote is much better

Thats becuase it is proprietary to Nikon, and the strobist site is not brand specific. They are all about knowing how to control your flash manually for best results, not leaving it in the hands of some engineer in Japan that created and adjusted CLS to his liking, not anyone else's.

Garbz · Apr 18, 2008

Yes in fact other than the blogger himself I am lead to believe many of the strobist fans are indeed canon users. In which case SU-4 will work with their camera.

Mind you you don't lose any manual control with remote mode either, just set the group to M instead of TTL or AA.

D-50 · Apr 20, 2008

Exactly. I would rather be able to control my flashes from my camera than having to wlak to each one and adjust them indiviually. Also not having to use the on camera flash gives more freedom. SU-4 mode seems to be secondary to Remote mode in all aspects.

JerryPH · Apr 20, 2008

Well... yes and no. Depends on how advanced you want to get.

- If you want to control more than 2 sets of strobes INDEPENDANTLY, you cannot use remote.

- If you are mxing and matching studio lighting and Nikon strobes, you cannot use remote.

- If you want to exceed a certain distance or use it outside in bright sun, you may not be able to use remote as successfully as SU-4

- If you want more than 3 stops difference between any 2 sets of lights, you cannot use remote.

Thats just what I can think of off the top of my head, I am sure there are more. For me personally, if I have 1-2 SB-800s and I want even lighting, I will use CLS and remote. Its nice and its easy... but it is LIMITING. Any time you leave the thinking about the lighting to some nice Japanese engineer instead of your needs or knowledge or abilities... you will not get the same level of quality results as when you use your own settings, in manual, and have total control over the environment.

Garbz · Apr 21, 2008

What trigger is that with? I know the D300 will allow you to control 3 groups, the dedicated SU-800 will allow you to control 4 groups.

Also you can drop the flashes back to AA or M using CLS too. Only the TTL flashes will only allow a maximum of 3 stop (+/-) I.e. even with TTL you have a 6 stop latitude.

I can't verify the range claim, I would believe that the SU-4 and remote have identical range but I have never been in a situation where remote didn't work and SU-4 did.

I wonder if Nikon will ever make a CLS trigger to allow any TTL flash to become part of the CLS system. This may be pointless for all but the diehard CLS fans.

JerryPH · Apr 21, 2008

D200 as a trigger.

As far as a the range with and without CLS, this happened to me, but it was quite far. The iTTL flashes were not caught by the remote flash, but when set to SU-4, it just needed to see the trigger flash which is stronger than the communicatory iTTL flashes and worked for me.

I doubt Nikon will include support for anything other than their products, however, it would be interesting if companies like Sigma or other 3rd parties would make flashes that were able to understand the iTTL setup information off camera and work with Nikon cameras. Currently there is no such thing for off camera, but there are a few that function well on camera.